Ye King of Spaine Inn - NPC OOC Discussion

Didn't want to clutter the Rules thread - not sure if you're going to lock that so only you can edit it or whatnot.

Does the advent of this set of subforums mean we're drawing near to the campaign kickoff?

What's your current wild rough guess at when you'd like it to start?

-An immaculately uniformed llama, with a pint of stout.

It is active now. All players have been given access to the private forums and planning and other discussions can begin. The actual map movements of early June will be a while away yet as the OOBs are still "gestating" but I've begun to feed snippets of information in a series of open reports known to both sides.

It is presently late May.

All players should be aware that no communication is fully secure. If you share information inside the private forums these will be taken to be letters written between the separated officers concerned and there is a chance that any communication by either side could be intercepted or heard about by the other. The French have a more secure communications ability within the small areas they control - for example Murat has fairly secure means of discussing plans with his immediate subordinates in the same city, so some discussions will be less risky than others.

Blackstreet wrote:Digby - what are the rules concerning radio-silence? I mean, can I directly email a fellow player? What can we post on the shared forum, etc?

Also, one other thing - what are the objectives / victory conditions? Or is it all roleplay-driven?

You can directly e-mail a fellow player, yes, but please CC me in on all communications.

On the shared forums players are already discussing plans of strategy. I take these as being letters written and sent by courier so every single IC post carries with it a risk it'll be intercepted and read by the enemy. Note that multiple couriers would be sent so the fact the message "gets through" on the forum is okay and still sits alongside it also being captured. As always in these situations the less you talk the less risk there is.

The objective for the Spanish nation is to clear their country of the hated French invaders.

The objective for the Spanish Generals is to come out as top dog when all this is over. The French are not interested in the internal struggle in Spain since the bleatings of their generals and politicians will be moot if they gain their objective, so I haven't said much about this yet. Its something for the Spanish 'team' to deal with.

The objective for the French is to suppress the uprising, defeat the Spanish armies and establish King Joseph securely on the throne in Madrid. Ultimately a Spanish Regency (government formed of a select group of nobles) or Cortes (more formal parliament) would need to recognise Joseph as King. The French must also maintain their control in Portugal and ensure the security and proper functioning of the Continental System in both countries.

For their part the British and their Portuguese allies want to bring the war to the French in any way practical so as to give support to Prussia, Russia and Austria. If they can divert more troops into Spain by their aggressive actions this can also assist. Ultimately, Britain, like the other European monarchies, wishes to see Napoleon defeated and removed from the political scene entirely and the Bourbon monarchy restored.

Can I ask you in future to ask questions in the camapign open area? It saves us having information in two places. I've copied this answr and your post over there.

Just had a thought - can everyone read MS Office Word 2010 documents? These are the ones with a '.docx' file type?

I have the OOBs written out on these.

I can convert to MS Office 2007 '.doc' file type but a simpler text editor like Wordpad or Notepad wouldn't hold the formatting

I'm on open office these days, so .doc would be best

Want me to PM an email, or are these shareable across the faction?

Digby wrote:

I can convert to MS Office 2007 '.doc' file type but a simpler text editor like Wordpad or Notepad wouldn't hold the formatting

The 2007 version would be best. It would reach the largest audience. The docx format was introduced to try and force people to upgrade.

I have nearly everyone's e-mail, so no need for that.

And yup, I'll convert them all to doc format then.

I have another question - perhaps I'm being blind or stupid, but I can't work out who is in Leon - is there a Spanish General there?

No, some of the Spanish provinces did not support armies. Leon I think was also beginning to merge politically with Old Castile by this date so that it got treated as one province called Leon-Old Castile (now there's a shock). Also in fact Old Castile didn't have an army either. What Cuesta did was try and train up and form a force out of nothing but enthusiastic peasants. Cuesta's army is hardly worthy of the title but he was at least persistent.

Murcia was another province that maybe through its small size didn't contribute much. The Murcian forces were not that numerous and quickly moved to operate alongside the Valencian army.

Those northern provinces near the French border also mostly seem to have either done nothing and maybe not cared so much (Basques maybe?) or the French presence suppressed the raising of armies so close to French forces.

Its also worth bearing in mind that at this time almost all the Spanish regular army was garrisoned in cities at the coasts, watchful of the British navy (Spain and Britain are at war when the campaign begins) so there's very few regular units stationed in the interior of the country at all. A big army is in the "Camp of Gibraltar" watching the land neck that connects to the British fortress there. This also helps explain why the Spanish forces gathered in the peripery of the country and marched towards the centre - that and the fact that British support when it did begin arriving obviously came in via those same ports where the army was garrisoned.

I have another question - perhaps I'm being blind or stupid, but I can't work out who is in Leon - is there a Spanish General there?

General Belvedere need not concern himself with the disposition of forces in the north. Leon falls under my influence and will not be tainted by monarchist desires. And while I cannot attest to the vision of the esteemed general, I am rather certain of his mental capacity.

I am &c, &c,
Generalissimo Joaquín Blake y Joyes

Uncle Billy wrote:

I have another question - perhaps I'm being blind or stupid, but I can't work out who is in Leon - is there a Spanish General there?

General Belvedere need not concern himself with the disposition of forces in the north. Leon falls under my influence and will not be tainted by monarchist desires. And while I cannot attest to the vision of the esteemed general, I am rather certain of his mental capacity.

I am &c, &c,
Generalissimo Joaquín Blake y Joyes

You received the cured ham I take it?

We thank the count for his beneficence. We shall keep the overripe ham for it reminds us that when the British invaders came, it was the people of the coast that protected our country while those inland grew fat like Iberian pigs and lifted not a finger to help. And when the latest invaders turn their attention towards you and Estremudra feels the French boot on her throat, she will squeal like this fat pig did before slaughter. When the count cries out for assistance, we will send you back your offering. Perhaps the overripe ham will assuage the snail eaters. Or perhaps after they have left your larder barren, the ham will stand between you and starvation.

I am &c, &c,
Generalissimo Joaquín Blake y Joyes

Uncle Billy wrote:We thank the count for his beneficence. We shall keep the overripe ham for it reminds us that when the British invaders came, it was the people of the coast that protected our country while those inland grew fat like Iberian pigs and lifted not a finger to help. And when the latest invaders turn their attention towards you and Estremudra feels the French boot on her throat, she will squeal like this fat pig did before slaughter. When the count cries out for assistance, we will send you back your offering. Perhaps the overripe ham will assuage the snail eaters. Or perhaps after they have left your larder barren, the ham will stand between you and starvation.

I am &c, &c,
Generalissimo Joaquín Blake y Joyes

Your ingratitude towards my people's generous gift is noted, as is your obvious disdain for the loyal subjects of Extremadura. Such unprovoked aggression is reminiscent of those French invaders who have shown you disproportionate leniency. I hope for your sake they continue to do so.

How could a man turn down such a fine gift! Ah, what is to be expected from these populists who cry injustice at the slightest provocation and are never grateful. I have not heard so much as a peep from my nearby generals who must be off on some Don Quixote mission no doubt. I shall stand guard and protect Spain and all her glory no matter the cost, despite receiving no ham! Empty stomach or not, I fight on!

Viva España! Viva Monarchy!

Generalissimo Marques Del Palacio

A fine gift? Far better to deal in muskets and cannon than the likes of these trinkets. What is to be said for a General clearly more mindful of his stomach than of the very real and vital threats posed by the Corsican's treachery? The people of Cataluna deserve far more than a Ham.

Thankfully General Vives is there to look after their just and valid concerns - all others who might once have commanded their respect seem very very far away.

Rio de Janeiro in fact...

Viva España! Viva Publica!

I pay no heed to my stomach Señor. As for General Vives, where is this hero you speak of? I have not seen nor heard from him. These phantom heroes of yours are a bit much and should be saved for story time for your children - when a real General is right here and ready to fight the dastardly Corsican.

Generalissimo Marques Del Palacio

My good Generalissimo Marques Del Palacio,

Please find with this courier 50 libras of jamón ibérico, but also 30 almudi of my finest Extremaduran cider from my cellars, as way of a humble apology for my oversight.

I hope you and your family are well, and that you are successful in ridding your lands of the various scourges that surround them.

Your ally,

LATE MAY 1808

News is breaking that the French garrison of Almeida fortress just inside the Portuguese frontier has been invested by a small force of Portuguese rebels of about a mixed brigade in size. All around them the countryside is in rebellion and communication has been lost with the fortress of Ciudad Rodrigo over the Spanish border. General Loison of Junot's corps is in the area but experiencing difficulty in foraging for supplies.

The Portuguese rebels still hold out in the citadel of Elvas although a strong brigade of French under General Charlot is keeping the place under tight blockade.

Oporto city is reported to be in open rebellion. The latest despatches from General Junot imply he plans to concentrate his forces towards Lisbon.

In Madrid there are rumours that some despatches between the capital and Marshal Bessieres in the north have gone missing on the Somosierra road.

I got asked a series of questions concerning map moves by a player and since the answers are for everyone, I'm answering here.

Admin question: I take it that my movement orders are (1) hex-by-hex, (2) include a march order and any special orders, (3) are emailed to Mr. Digby preferably without a "cc" to anyone of my side to maintain some commo security; is this correct? Also, Corps have Depots; divisions do not? I believe that's all the questions I have.

You do not need to give me hex-by-hex move orders. You should really know where your force is going to end up when it sets off on campaign so the easiest thing to do is to give me its final destination and I'll just keep moving it until it arrives, reporting back to you points of interest.

If you want to specify less than a full move then give me the place you want it to pause, whether that's a town name or a hex number. If there's features in the hex such as a river crossing or ridge, give me an indication of where your force is encamped in relation to such features.

An order of march for your force given on turn 1 would be very helpful and I'll use that until the force composition changes.

I will always assume light cavalry is scouting ahead and to the flanks but if you wish to specify which units you are free to do so.

I only need hex numbers if you go across country but in almost every single case except when trying to avoid encirclement, armies in Spain used the roads since the terrain was so broken.

If you want to drop off a garrison at any settlement you pass through, please specify which units. In the case of the French where its pretty much a requirement to garrison everywhere I can do this automatically for you, leaving always the weakest unit in your force (starting with the one with the lowest combat rating, then very small but good ones, etc). You should let me know if you want to leave behind garrisons of infantry or dragoons. Or you want to specify every garrison, I do not mind.

Please supply 'stance' orders for when you arrive.

If you know you are near to enemy or friends please supply me more detailed contingency or intent orders.

Enemy occupied fortresses will need instructions about whaat you are doing but we will usually enter into an e-mail exchange over the details of most encounters anyway.

Please e-mail orders to me without anyone else being told. I'll feedback to everyone what they discover or who they meet en-route.

Corps or armies have depots, divisions don't, though a division that's part of a corps will always draw on the corps depot. Detached divisions will have a current base of operations specified and will use that as their depot until they join up with another corps.

I hope that answers everything but if not, ask away.

So to clarify, you will always move our pieces via the roads even if it is a longer route? How are we to ambush from the mountains good sir?

Mr. Digby wrote:I only need hex numbers if you go across country but in almost every single case except when trying to avoid encirclement, armies in Spain used the roads since the terrain was so broken.

I'm more interested in these stances... any in particular to choose from, or just Keep It Simple?

Baldwin1 wrote:So to clarify, you will always move our pieces via the roads even if it is a longer route? How are we to ambush from the mountains good sir?

I will move your armies where you tell me to, I just can't see a huge value in going across country when lines of supply must use roads. Xcountry moves will, I think, only be used in desperation such as when escaping encirclement. In the hilly country it'll mean abandoning your artillery as well.

Armies don't ambush from the mountains, the guerillas do that.

Stances need to only encompass things like "Stop at the riverline and guard the bridge. If attacked hold at all costs" or "...if attacked delay and withdraw slowly..." or "...if the town is occupied hold position and send out patrols..." or "... occupy the main ridge running north-south across the hex..." These kinds of orders really help me decide if a battle is going to occur and where it will occur and where opposing forces will be or if one side will give ground and I can resolve a minor level of contact without the need for a MP game. Its conceivable that with a hex map instead of a nodal map we'll get a lot more meetings of opposing forces and I'm conscious that its arranging the MP games that takes time.

I think everyone is on board now to one extent or another so I'll ask that 1/June turn orders be in to me by Wednesday next week. If this is a problem for anyone, please let me know. Everyone commanding a corps (French) or an army (Spanish) needs to let me know where their depot is established, which has to be a friendly settlement with a garrison. It can be any type of settlement and any size garrison.

Players commanding less than a corps need not worry about placing depots but Murat and Bessieres need to ensure that subordinate generals in their areas have a sufficient supply line to allow them to move. Please contact me if you need to discuss anything about this.

Murat and Bessieres are responsible for garrisons in their respective areas although if French corps or divisions move the commander is responsible for leaving a garrison in any settlement he passes through that he wishes to become friendly.

I'll be contacting individuals to discuss any specific supply situations as necessary.

A turn checklist is given above in my 11th May post.

Dear all

The supply rules seem to be causing a bit of confusion for a number of players.

Supply is dependent on having friendly settlements. Friendly settlements are made by having garrisons in them, or in the case of Spanish towns and the Allied side, having friendly forces be the last to pass through them. The garrison size depends on the type of settlement and its location. In Spain the French generally need to put in about twice as many men as the Allies and the opposite is true in France. The sizes of essential garrisons (enough men for the settlement to be an adequate supply centre) are given in rule 2.1.1. and 2.1.2.

Note also there is a minimum garrison that fortresses need to withstand a siege, but this has nothing to do with supply. Rules 2.5.1 and 2.5.2.

Without a minimum garrison no supply line can be drawn through (or start at) a settlement. This means that even if you place your depot there, the wagons of supplies cannot get through (leave the town) because the town is hostile or simply in civil unrest. The locals are ransacking the wagons and there aren't enough troops to maintain order!

The French can garrison an ordinary unfortified town such as, say, Tudela and then place a corps depot in it. The single battalion needed is sufficient for the supply wagons from the depot to set off on their journey to supply the corps.

The same applies to a city but a city requires a bigger garrison. Simply placing a depot in a city that has just 1 battalion garrison is not going to allow that depot to function because (for the French) a city requires a 3-btn brigade to garrison it.

Along the route the supply line takes, all other intervening settlements must also be friendly.

These arrangements allow (for the French) a force of up to 25,000 men to be supplied from a city, fortress-city or depot. The Allies can also use ports, providing they are friendly (in other words have a garrison).

To be able to support more than 25,000 troops and up to 50,000 a source of supply must have its garrison doubled. However heavy garrisoning of a region becomes counter productive for the French and a chance for civil unrest arises. Heavy garrisoning does however also allow more ('good' levels of) taxation and awards more victory points.

Taking Madrid as an example, since it is a capital city it must have a minimum (French) garrison of a division which is a minimum of 2 brigades, each a minimum of 3 battalions. With 6 battalions in place it can support 25,000 troops. But since this size garrison ensures it remains friendly/well policed any depots placed in it can also supply 25,000 men. Thus if the French were to place two depots and a 6-battalion division there, Madrid could support a maximum of 75,000 men. If they double the garrison to 12 battalions the basic supply potential shifts from 'adequate' to 'good' and so 50,000 troops can be supported. Add in the two corps depots and we get 100,000.

A corps (or Spanish army) depot only ever supports 25,000 men. Larger formations must have a secondary source of supply (usually a city or city-fortress).

Another example, the Spanish use the city of Seville as a supply source. Since the French are holding Madrid, Seville is treated as the national capital, so the Spanish must put into it a garrison of at least 1 brigade (of 3 btns). Once these 3 btns are in the city, it can support an army of 25,000 men. Should they add a depot there, Seville could support an army of 50,000. A depot put into Seville without a garrison or one of less than 3 btns would produce nothing except a bunch of Seville(ians) eating all the pies.

If anyone is still uncertain about this aspect of the rules I'm happy to help explain the situation for your local region.

IMPORTANT!

Once you have submitted your turn 1 orders to me, the game is 'live' for you, so please do not send e-mails direct to other players, send them only to me but addressed to the other general. I will then forward them on.

Thanks all.