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Waterloo Battles Change in Formation Issue

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Waterloo Battles Change in Formation Issue Empty Waterloo Battles Change in Formation Issue

Post  Frog9y on Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:54 pm

Hi Guys,
New to Scourges of Waterloo and having played a few hours i thought id give this mod a try. I've noticed in the Waterloo Battles if i use the units change formation buttons the game crashes. It works fine if i use a Sandbox game are there any issue using this mod to play the Waterloo Battles?

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Post  Mr. Digby on Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:31 pm

Hi there and welcome to the forums.

The vanilla scenarios do not work with the mod because the KS mod changes so much structure in the game. If you don't get a crash then its possible the scenario balance will be skewed because troops in the mod have different behaviours and strengths. As an example artillery is almost useless in the base game whereas in the mod, if used properly, it is very powerful. Also do not use any other mods with these mods, especially the Grog toolbar.

If you use our OOBs and the mods you can play the base game campaign however, using any two sides (Russian, Austrian, etc).
Mr. Digby
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Post  Miko77 on Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:13 pm

Hi Frog9y,
This mod is made mainly for multiplayer and preferably with restricted view to the saddle... - that's how we play it. However I did attempt to play it in similar way to Total War games at first... just because I knew people that played Total War (NTW3 HB mod) and were happy to try it with me. Back then however there was no perfect game restart system that we have nowadays (thanks to Kevin)...
If you'd like to play it solo, I'd probably encourage to create your own scenarios using Kevin's scenario generator, also pop in to our Discord - even if you don't want to play mp with us, you should download mod updates that are available via links that Kevin puts in the Discord server.
From time to time when the number of changes reaches critical mass (or when Kevin can be bothered) the new version of mod is published... but that could be a long wait Very Happy
Miko77
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Post  Grog on Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:15 pm

Hello Frog9y
You and Celtibro-Frog would not be 'one in the same person', by any chance?
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Post  Grog on Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:15 pm

Hello Frog9y
You and Celtibro-Frog would not be 'one in the same person', by any chance?
Grog
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Post  Grog on Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:15 pm

Hello Frog9y
You and Celtibro-Frog would not be 'one in the same person', by any chance?
Grog
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Post  Grog on Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:15 pm

Hello Frog9y
You and Celtibro-Frog would not be 'one in the same person', by any chance?
Grog
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Post  DarkRob on Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:25 pm

Really? Artillery in the stock game is useless? Look, if you're just fanboying the KS mod that's fine, I like it to. But artillery in the stock game is literally THE meta of the entire game. It's the absolute most effective form of fire in the game within 200 yards in terms of the amount of casualties it can cause and the speed at which it can cause them.

I don't use it in a historical way, and I admit that. But useless is way to strong a word and misleads people.

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Post  Uncle Billy on Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:43 pm

No, I'd say the stock artillery is next to useless. The primary use of artillery was long range fire. In the stock game that makes it almost entirely a toothless tiger. I suppose if you are recreating Senarmont's artillery charge at Friedland in every game, then it does have some value.
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Post  DarkRob on Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:50 pm

At long range I'm in complete agreement. It might as well be firing Cocoa Puffs. My issue was the blanket statement that artillery in the stock game is useless. That's just demonstrably false.

DarkRob

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Post  Miko77 on Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:57 pm

Hello Frog9y
You and Celtibro-Frog would not be 'one in the same person', by any chance?

Well, that would be fantastic as we had a great time in NBC playing countless battles using NTW3 cheers
Miko77
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Post  Mr. Digby on Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:02 pm

@DarkRob - Its demonstrably true because the primary use of artillery in the period was long range pounding. In the stock game you have to bring it up to about HALF of effective canister range which, for anything other than horse artillery pressed in closer than was safe, is really ahistorical. A few batteries we know were pushed forwards to close ranges in some battles but very, very rarely 200 yards; the vanilla game thinks Napoleonic artillery is some kind of wheeled giant shotgun.

"the absolute most effective form of fire in the game within 200 yards"

That supports my assertion. Artillery was almost never used that close. Taking an average field gun, a 6pdr, canister should be effective out to 300-400 yards and roundshot out to at least 700-800 yards depending on calibre and crew quality.

Therefore, its useless. You can't use it at all how it was intended and therefore you can't replicate Napoleonic tactics.
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Post  DarkRob on Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:25 pm

This is all well and good. I don't deny that you have to use artillery ahistorically in the stock game. My point is that if you do, then its the most effective weapon in the game, and therefore far from useless.

The initial statement was a blanket statement saying artillery in the stock game was useless. The "blanketness" of that statement is what I had a problem with.

Now if you want to introduce a whole bunch of caveats to it such as how artillery was used historically, or even your own personal take on how it was used historically, and that its useless in that regard, then fine, Im cool with that.

You can add in all sorts of contexts that exist outside of the game itself, and Im fine with all of it.

But the game itself knows nothing about history, or your interpretation of it. It simply is what it is, for better or for worse, and in that context, artillery is the best weapon in the game, by a large margin.

See what Im saying? You're talking about history, Im talking about the game itself. Both are valid talking points, but neither are covered by a sweeping blanket statement.

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