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Napoleonics in the age of technology and streaming

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Post  Charmead on Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:35 am

I noted your comments in the beginning about “leaving me out to dry” when I ran into a pair of French divisions.

How nice :-)

I shall remember this when I am CinC next ...

Funny when I was pulling back off hill and gave you a heads up about possible French movement on my flank. I was hoping for a connection of foreboding when the words “outnumbered” and “pulling back” and “flank” are associated with same friendly division... but heard “why is that MY responsibility?” from the CinC and I was just dying laughing. Truly left out to dry in the North lol

But you were kind to be concerned about my welfare around 1630

At 1645 we had confused definitions of which hill I was to be on. I wrote from one hill and you received from the other.  I thought at time you saw me on other hill but you were actually looking at a trailing brigade.

By 1652 you realized it was a different hill I was at. Its a great way to compare interpretations of messages.

Hearing you read my “French approaching from East” message at 1656 ... oh I was dying. Laughing so hard. I lost track of them in my attack and wanted to remind you. But you were tracking entire time. Hilarious.

I liked your summary at 1702. Gave me context as to what you were thinking and ESPECIALLY perceiving. Might want to do that every 15-20 mins or so. Also recommended you keep mini map on upper right. Lower right blocks viewer from seeing messages.

Was a fun game.

Was entertaining to watch. Until it twice froze and killed my internet each time. So I stopped lol. CinCs revenge I guess.
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Post  DumpTruck on Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:32 am

I noted your comments in the beginning about “leaving me out to dry” when I ran into a pair of French divisions.

Well the time before I had put you in reserve and your were chomping at the bit to get into a fight so I figured I'd give you one this time. Laughing

Also recommended you keep mini map on upper right. Lower right blocks viewer from seeing messages.

That's a good catch, I totally didn't think of that. I'll definitely do more updates on the plan and such a bit more frequently. I hadn't really thought of it until we had our miscommunication and I was just reaching for a way to communicate and remembered I could draw on the map. Watching it back it definitely is better to just bring up the drawing map rather than gesturing with my mouse. I also need to fix those awful long white lines that trail off of it. They were just small enough that I didn't notice them on the software's preview which is a smaller screen. Should be an easy fix I think.

Was entertaining to watch. Until it twice froze and killed my internet each time. So I stopped lol. CinCs revenge I guess.

This is weird because I actually had it freeze up on me too as I was watching parts back. I'm not sure what that's about. I didn't lose internet though, I just had to skip around on the timeline a little and it started playing again. Strange.

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Post  Mr. Digby on Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:31 pm

I noticed during the officers briefing that the OOB covered the lower right of the map which is where the player divisions were so most of what you were saying was lost on whoever may be watching. I would definitely see if you can place the OOB and map graphics side by side and not overlapping. If we have a scenario that is based mostly on one half of the map, I'll slide the other half off my screen and shift the OOB file to the side so that all the pertinent info is visible. When I get the OOB I always edit it while people are talking so that the lines of brigade info are shorter. "Regiment" becomes "regt", "battalion" "btn", etc. I also often delete the first names of commanders and shorten their ranks - "Generalleutnant" becomes "GL", "Generalmajor" is "GM and so on.

@ Kevin - I wonder if you could get the scenario generator to do this for us? I have to do it every time in order to be able to read both the OOB file and see the map. Not a problem for a player privately but would be good for the streaming issue.

I would definitely suggest a lot more commentary during the briefing and the opening quiet phases actually describing the scenario, the location, what year it is, the two sides and why the fight is being fought as well as naming the players and which are their commands as well as where they are. I would read messages aloud rather than let the viewers read them. Describing units and uniforms might be good too as regiments march past, especially the less well-known ones such as Spanish militia or 1806 Saxon artillery or the difference in uniforms between pre-1810 French Carabiniers and post 1809 ones.

On the whole I think it went extremely well. The map had more trees and undergrowth than I remembered but at least the main action was across a broad valley so there were some good views and its nice to have you zoom in on a glimpse of enemy moving through distant trees, something a viewer might miss.

Also next time if I edit the scenario file I will make sure I don't knacker one unit in each brigade with an accidental row shift!
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Post  Charmead on Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:51 pm

Getting back to my earlier comment on a rhythm and pacing in light of what Martin just noted.

You might want to print out a checklist of the kinds of things Martin noted and have it next to you. It will serve as a good reminder of things to point out. And is a great opportunity to note nuances in game mechanics. For example you had a noticeable grimace when artillery ripped apart one of my squares. And they were in square due to nearby cavalry which makes them a great artillery target. And on the front side of a slope with artillery looking up which makes it even more inviting. . Hey Pat you might want to get them out of the line of fire. Don’t do what Pat just did. Oh look. Now they are shattered and running away.

Keep a timer/alarm handy for every 15 mins or so to remind you to step back with a big picture update.

Take a note of anything during the game which might make for a good discussion point afterward - miscommunications, different perceptions, significant maneuvers, Phils trees, nice cafes
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Post  Mr. Digby on Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:47 pm

Making a note of all the best eateries is one of the more important things. Any new players joining us need to be guided away from the dumps we don't patronize.
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Post  DumpTruck on Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:56 pm

The VOD went up pretty quick this time. It seems to take about 5-10 minutes. The audio goes bad for like an hour but gets fixed after the first break. Based off initial thoughts I didn't think that having the map up the whole time would block a lot of screen space, but it kind of does, so I'll have to try something else. Maybe making it a little less opaque or something is an option.

Be sure to watch at 4:05:00 (maybe a few seconds earlier) for the miracle del convento whereby I had my battalions in assault column in front of very close enemy cavalry who charged them. I wasn't even close to reacting fast enough but they miraculously gave up their charge before reaching the unformed square! God was clearly on our side.

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Post  Mr. Digby on Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:17 am

Fun to see a part of the battle I wasn't involved in. At 1:34:15 some piano music starts and that is Joe Hisashi from one of Hayao Miyazaki's anime films, Spirited Away I think, so 100% certain its copyrighted Wink

EDIT: Also if you go into options and disable flags, all the coloured symbols that float about the active units don't display which adds immersion.


Last edited by Mr. Digby on Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Uncle Billy on Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:30 am

I'll have to watch the video, but based on the comments in this thread; Hanging Pat out to dry is just another day at the office for me.  Why all the fuss? Shocked
In his own words:
Don’t do what Pat just did. Oh look. Now they are shattered and running away.
Why wouldn't someone allow him to flounder and self-destruct.

I'll update the SG and shorten regiment and battalion.
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Post  Mr. Digby on Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:40 am

Grog at 2:28:45 "I'm sorry, why are you speaking to me?"

That made me laugh so much, talking like that to the corps commanders face Wink

And a few minutes earlier the episode N of San Giacomo with Ehey's incompetent cavalry unable to see 3 batteries 100yds away among the trees while Orff's "O Fortuna" in the background is completely wasted Smile Smile Absolutely hilarious.

Ehey "Right, cavalry, let's have some epic music while you smash these guns! Go! KILL!"

Cavalry "What guns? Where? Pardon? Are you speaking to me? Oh what pretty trees."

Ehey "Charge these guns you blockheads!"

Cavalry "Look, a rabbit, isn't that cute? Oh, is our general still ranting about something? Never mind."

EDIT:

2:21:02 - a nasty riding accident

2:34:20 - 2:34:50 - awesome Prussian kurassiere.

4:05:00 ! Great stuff!
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Post  Charmead on Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:26 am

Looked to me like a brilliantly led corps attack. Division Commanders informed of shifting intent of the Corps Commander. Adapting to changing conditions. All in a days work. But Some - Kevin for example - might find my opinion biased. Very Happy
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Post  Grog on Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:47 am

Thanks again, Ehey, for putting together this entertaining stream.

Your special relationship with Pat, once again, shows through and it is a joy to watch for this alone! Very Happy

It was good to watch your action, which was to my left. I had no idea that there were so many Spanish troops on the other side of the hill with the windmill. I was far too engrossed in furthering my fetish for Prussian Grenadiers and squeezing my Division between yours and Miko's.

Great to have Morhys play with us. It was commendable how quickly he picked up the technical aspects of our KS MP gaming and, also, bringing his brigade into the fight with effective Courier communication.

I liked the use of the voice com/chat room for this game, although it did catch me off guard, which I also found very funny on the stream replay Very Happy I think,though, I would prefer Commanders to be closer and stationary for discussion. Perhaps a shout out to commanders if 100yds away saying something like "Hey General Blockhead, meet me on the hill to your left, near the barn"etc

The music was a really nice addition. Sometimes there was a piece which didn't quite fit though because of the mood or it was slightly too modern. Do you have an option to include your own library and pick which tracks you play? It would be nice to be able to more refine the playlist to have appropriate catagories for marching, tension, drama, melancholy etc. If you need any more samples I could help a little and I'm sure Phil would be a good man to advise.

I look forward to the next one, although [i]doubt that I will play tonight



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Post  Mr. Digby on Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:26 am

I wonder if you could set up several playlists on several different copies of VLC or whatever you use and activate/deactivate them with hot keys? Suddenly switching to something stirring as a charge happens would be very nice. I agree as well that you need to watch out for copyrights and perhaps get hold of more late 18th century pieces and more military pieces.
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Post  Uncle Billy on Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:18 pm

I watched about 1.5 videos. They were pretty good overall. The restart in the first game was a bit painful, though. I put the restart file in the download channel. It's at the top of the list. All that needs to be done is to download it and place it in the folder of the scenario you are playing.

One suggestion for Ehey, is to use the 'A' and 'D' keys for rotating the camera. Using the mouse is a bit jerky. The camera rotation speeds can be set in the main options screen, page 3.
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Post  DumpTruck on Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:21 pm

@Kevin How do I change my controls to make A and D rotate the camera though? A and D strafes it left and right for me. I agree though, sometimes using the mouse is just too crazy even for me when I'm the one using it.

As for the music discussion, I definitely can make a play list. Last time I just put up a few YouTube videos that were several hours of music because I was unprepared. This time...I'm still unprepared but for the temporary fix I have been a little more strict in my searching to hopefully keep it all public domain. I think a playlist is probably the best scenario but I'll need some time to build one full of streaming friendly music. I certainly can put in specific songs to play when I'm nearby each of you. Suggestions for such songs are welcome, the trick is just going to be finding them to download and making sure they're free use.

I agree the commander chat worked out nice. It's a shame I failed on the audio for the first one, because that one was quite good too for being the first one done on the fly. I had Pat on the screen for most of it, there was a dynamic and surprise spotting of Spanish troops that we investigated, we discussed the situation in decent detail. I definitely should have given Grog and heads up but it too was mostly a off the cuff type situation and it did end up being a bit humorous. cheers I'll try to keep the person I'm talking to on camera more as well for the sanctity of the conversation. I figure I can also do it with my brigadiers if I have any when I'm commanding a division. It's definitely a good, but different way to summarize the battle going on for the audience, as well as get a more crystal picture of how someone else is doing in the battle. I don't want to over-do it though so I'll try to just do it when it seems natural, or perhaps if we're sitting around doing nothing.


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Post  Uncle Billy on Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:38 pm

For rotation while standing still use the 'Q' and 'E' keys. Or you can remap keys as I do by changing things in keyboard.csv. It is located in the Documents/SOWWL folder.
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Post  DumpTruck on Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:45 pm

Ahh, ok great, I shall do this.

For a heads up, I totally screwed up the stream again. This time leaving the BRB title card up after the first crash, and thus ruining at least 30 minutes of good fighting right when it started. Fortunately despite my obliviousness, Grog and R59 caught it and eventually I fixed it. There was still some good action caught there. The battle where Pat was trying to connect to Martin's division was pretty good. Some brutal French cavalry charges there as I struggled to use my giant brigades effectively.

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Post  Charmead on Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:45 am

Ehey It was too bad the game crashed just as my troops caught you off guard. I was laughing at the “OH ****” comment. I probably could have held a psychological advantage a but longer

I really only intended to fight with a brigade for a bit, plus some cav guarding the guns to keep you all occupied. It was an intentional “leave Pat out to dry” for the good of the cause. Was moving to flank you with the rest of my division to make it sporting but saw Kevin and then pulled out once I knew we had the objectives unopposed.

I always find the Player v Player fascinating with the whole psychological aspect. So it was really interesting to hear you in the moment as you encountered my brigade. Although I was planning to occupy as many Russians as possible I did not expect to see you come from the southeast, much less pursue me.

While I wanted you to follow as I pulled out I was hoping to at least have some breathing room to regroup. Thats why U went so far NW. But you guys kept pursuing. So by the time I reached my desired destination to make a stand next to Morys, your & Kevins pursuit had me stand with less order at first than I hoped. Then it was a matter of time as you ground me down to nothing.

I look forward to watching the rest to hear your side of the pursuit and fight. You had some good running commentary going.

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Post  Mr. Digby on Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:33 am

Fascinating watching your stream right now as I didn't know about any of this. On reflection I think Pat's plan worked brilliantly - his division led you a merry chase farther NW than you needed to be and wasted maybe 90 minutes of the game as you tried to destroy him and he tried to ninja out of your grasp. When you and Kevin finally collided with me and what Pat managed to get back to Kolberg you were grinding us down but the time Pat had bought us was enough to make the clock run down before you got anywhere near any of the objectives. With an unlimited amount of time I think you'd have beaten us but time was on our side. At 1h 56mins you draw a summary on your minimap of what you think is the situation and you're completely wrong, especially your understanding of where Neverovsky is and how many divisions you've been fighting. Its really cool to hear your real-time reactions and hear your appreciation of what you think is happening. Thank you very much for doing this, its bringing in a whole new way of appreciating these games. Great stuff.

1h 55m 38s - Neverovsky confusing the villages of Freiheim and Fontheim didn't help!
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Post  DumpTruck on Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:10 am

Pat's maneuver was very effective in multiple ways. I normally wouldn't praise a man who's tactics see every man serving beneath him killed but it did delay us. In the very beginning, the first contact with his division and mine I was immediately a bit cagey. Knowing I could possibly bump into a division with a player brigade in it, as well as my division being the most forward, I was very hesitant to march out in front of those cannons. By the time I had maneuvered around his supposed flank he had pulled back most of his force to attack Kevin, which is the trick that had us thinking there was two divisions. It was very good use of the visibility of terrain and definitely an interesting tactic that you wouldn't normally expect or try in a battle with the AI. I mean it still got all of his men killed, but it was interesting.

The other reason it worked so well is because, well as you can see we thought Phil was somewhere engaging two divisions by sitting in the woods and blasting guns at them. When I tried to chase Pat to stop him from re-uniting I thought I was striking a flank, so I sent one brigade on attack at the city towards Morhys' brigade and tried to bring more troops in to catch Pat. Guns and cavalry spoiled my attempt to cut him off. At that point Kevin had arrived so I grabbed my remaining forces to TC a long bloody affair against Morhy's brigade. Played chicken with those lancers for at least 30 minutes.

It was a good battle. I chuckled at the part where I write Kevin a message saying, "Boy I hope Phil doesn't get lost in these woods..." Oh the foreshadowing. lol!

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Post  Mr. Digby on Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:58 pm

"Oh the foreshadowing."

Oh, the humanity!

Phil needs to be kept on a short leash attached to a main body in clear ground where you can see him and hit him with a stick when he doesn't do what you need. Planting him in the centre of the line helps so he can't slip away and go flower collecting. Detaching him on flank duty in a heavily wooded area was just asking for trouble, especially when Miko offered him some nice shiny guns to chase.

On the whole those kinds of command problems are what I love most about the game, total unpredictability. And the fact that our maps showed the northern half of the map to be so many baseball pitches put together when in fact it was more like Mirkwood. Now that our staffs have encountered the Northern Jungles perhaps our cartographer can provide a more accurate rendition of this region?
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Post  Uncle Billy on Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:52 pm

Phil needs to be kept on a short leash attached to a main body in clear ground where you can see him and hit him with a stick when he doesn't do what you need. Planting him in the centre of the line helps so he can't slip away and go flower collecting. Detaching him on flank duty in a heavily wooded area was just asking for trouble, especially when Miko offered him some nice shiny guns to chase.
Very true. Miko was the real hero of the battle. His ungentlemanly behavior on the battlefield was the cause of our plan's collapse. Showing Smeagol shinnies and then playing keep away, just isn't fair. I'll have to add some anti-Miko code to the game.
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Post  Charmead on Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:56 pm

Back to Digby’s comment. Our plan was all about trading time for territory so sustaining over 80% casualties was what that took in this case. Shiny artillery tubes in the woods were also a key factor.

Got a chance to watch stream until the end. Really good to watch. And also watching the assumptions in play. Really glad you started this stream.
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Post  Grog on Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:01 pm

Thanks, Ehey, for another fine stream.

Really liked the mid game cavalry action with supporting squares and artillery. The openness of the terrain gave a rare spectacle of a large battle unfolding with plenty of action.

At 46 mins in, whilst you were marching down the road but, obligingly, fulfilling your need to inform the viewers of the Scenario Write Up (you were off-screen), a French Hussar scouting party came into view. They pulled a few faces and gave a few rude gestures then hid behind the Courier report in the bottom right hand corner, which you had left open. They remained there for a bit with only their heads poking above the Report. When you returned to the screen, you may have seen them running back to Pat but perhaps you mistook them for Russian scouts as they were running back.

It was hilarious and so poignant (but not surprising to the viewer) when a few minutes later you looked over your shoulder and saw the rest of the French Hussar Regiment and a formed up Brigade of French infantry:D

Perhaps, it illustrates how difficult it can be commanding a Division whilst, at the same time, presenting a stream. There is also a tendency to play 'through the camera's eye' and be seeking good shots etc
Maybe, we could agree to reserve a few minutes before starting the game, without distraction, where Ehey could go over the Scenario from his perspective? It might also be good for there to be a few minutes before players start to march, so that Ehey could orientate the viewer and do an introduction to his command and run through his OOB?

Looking forward to tonight's game, chaps.

No doubt, Kevin will be 'chomping at the bit' to take Command again and thus redeem himself following recent reversals. He's going to have to promote one or two from the lower ranks, following his last shipment of Generals to Siberia Razz



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Post  Mr. Digby on Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:22 pm

Yes I saw those hussars and I knew that there aren't any Russian hussars who wear that uniform.

I've now finished watching and the rock-paper-scissors game between you and my cavalry in the last 30 mins while I was supporting Morhys brigade is great to watch. It was very hard work for me and I was drained when it was over. A challenging encounter.
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Post  Uncle Billy on Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:32 pm

I too watched the stream and have another observation. During the battle, I found it hard to hear you over the music. Perhaps it's a result of too much ZZ Top and Led Zeppelin in my earlier years, but I'd recommend turning up the microphone sensitivity or speaking a bit louder.
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