Scourge of War - Napoleon, A Peninsular Campaign

Khryses wrote:I'm happy to be Spanish - don't mind which role I take down that order of importance, as long as my loyal comrades in arms don't mind commanding my troops in battle at first.

This should be a lot of fun

Well... some news for you. One of the things I want to do is have the player who commands that army on the map be its commander in battle. THis is for two reasons, first because he will best know the strategic situation his forces are in and draw up a battle plan accordingly and second because the skills of the commanders on both sides was very variable and this should encompass that nicely

If enough players show for the smaller games the C-in-C won't actually have any troops to command so galloping about shouting is all you'd need to do.

Mr. Digby wrote:........... One of the things I want to do is have the player who commands that army on the map be its commander in battle. THis is for two reasons, first because he will best know the strategic situation his forces are in and draw up a battle plan accordingly and second because the skills of the commanders on both sides was very variable and this should encompass that nicely

Just to be clear. You have to have the Gettysburg game to be part of this? That's going to rule out a lot of folks.

I can quite see the advantages of having the player who commands that army on the map being its commander in battle. But it may make keeping the game moving a bit of a challenge, as any battle will require the presence of 2 specific players, plus enough others for the necessary subordinate commands.

Martin (J)

Those criteria are my preference. If it proves impractical we'll just have to go with what is practical.

EDIT: Stefan, I added you to the French team.

If any player really has a preference and its not where you are, speak up and I can still move you as long as the sides remain balanced.

Mr. Digby wrote:Those criteria are my preference. If it proves impractical we'll just have to go with what is practical.

Ok let's suck it and see. I'll get something out. I'd forgotten that there is a forum newsletter facility I can use, so that should reach all members.

Martin (J)

Count me in, Digby

I had mentioned in another thread, and that I was interested in a small role. Forgot to confirm here.

Looks great. I don't mind which side.

You now have me enthused for all things Peninsular. Ordered 'The Spanish Ulcer...'

Have you received the Peninsular Atlas yet? Good, eh?

Mike

Okies, I've added you to the Spanish team as they need a player next.

I haven't got the Atlas yet, though from what I've seen of it on the web it looks fantastic.

I've dug out my old copy of "Ulcer" and am going to re-read it soon. Been so long since I read it I've forgotten what it was like!

I recently got a copy second hand via Amazon of a book called "The Spanish Army in the Peninsular War" by Charles J Esdaile, published in 1988 as one in a series of books entitled "War, Armed Forces and Society" and its a fantastic read. It paints a compelling and pretty depressing picture of the culture, society, politics and armed forces of Spain from about the 1770s. I have learned more about the why and wherefore of the Spanish Rebellion in the last 2 weeks than I have in the last 2 decades. Its an amazingly convoluted mess and really quite tragic, with the army being badly mismanaged since the 1760s and the culture of 'honour' among the Spanish nobility closing the officer class almost totally to commoners with the noble officers being completely useless strutting... flamingos, literally. Corruption was terrible and went to the very highest levels. And I mean to the king, Carlos IV who was a complete waste of space.

When the rebellion happened though, political and military power quickly passed to the hands of the local (provincial) civilian juntas and the generals were just puppets dancing to their whims. Its why so many campaigns ended in failure, why Bailen produced no lasting results and why by 1810 Spain was practically prostrate and acted henceforth only as a very weak partner to Wellington's Anglo-Portugese army.

It does mean I need to think carefully about the campaign and how much freedom of action the Spanish generals may have. I might have to make a kind of random event pack of cards to represent the total stupidity but compete authority of the various juntas.

Alternatively the non-SoW playing KS members could play the juntas. Hm.

*goes away scratching bonce*

Good news is we've just signed the lease on a place in London - internet proper should be set up there next Tuesday, so I'll put getting SoW set up there as a priority, followed by all the exciting new Napoleonic mods.

Since I'm actually in the BRITISH timezone now, setting up games should involve a lot less insomnia... which wasn't the main reason behind our move halfway around the world, I swear And (god forbid) we actually may manage to get Teamspeak set up as well - if my Lady Wife really wants to be asleep in bed at 7-8pm, she can deal with my chatting to my commanders across the field ^^

You gents are getting me all wistful for the Peninsula Campaign I ran a year or two back - didn't have the same tactical options available without SoW, so we did hour-turns on a tactical map (resolving up to four battles simultaneously in a forum-based game with each set of orders covering an hour's action was a bit of a headtrip, albeit fun) kicking off in January 1812. The French commanders grew particularly inventive though, with Soult going so far as to organize parties of false-uniformed 'British deserters' to roam between the armies and try to turn the Spanish against the British. Well that and setting burning ex-Treasury wagons careering into the British lines at Cadiz.

Just a thought, but if you wanted to hamstring us Spanish Patriots you could give us individual objectives tied to our regions - so we'd LIKE to help the Allied advance... but only if it lets us keep together an army of enough size to dominate our support bases. Or to protect the Monastery of San Paulo, etc etc.

Having many of our regionally-recruited troops lose morale, quality and eventually numbers as we leave our stomping grounds would be another way to hamstring us... which would hurt.

If you want to steal a leaf from Matrix's Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue, they had a mechanic where at certain points through the game High Command (the Juntas in this case) would designate a certain objective that MUST be taken within X turns else dire consequences (reduced reinforcements and 'VPs') would befall you. If you were doing well, you could buy off certain objective cards that you were aware could come up, but once they were played on you you were stuck.

Very much looking forward to this, and happy to be allocated to any role on the Spanish side.

French or British for me.

-Neal

I'd be interested in playing for France or Spain, although I'd fill in wherever need be.

On a side note regarding rules, it seems like sieges seem unbalanced.

If I attack a fortress that holds 100 men, with a force of 20,000 men, they can lose between 1 and 6 men a turn, whereas I'd be losing 200-1,200 men a turn. (An extreme example) but I think the percentage system seems a bit unbalanced, making the attacker take substantial losses for essentially sitting around doing little.

Any side where I can where a feather bonnet

Wittmann wrote:I'd be interested in playing for France or Spain, although I'd fill in wherever need be.

On a side note regarding rules, it seems like sieges seem unbalanced.

If I attack a fortress that holds 100 men, with a force of 20,000 men, they can lose between 1 and 6 men a turn, whereas I'd be losing 200-1,200 men a turn. (An extreme example) but I think the percentage system seems a bit unbalanced, making the attacker take substantial losses for essentially sitting around doing little.

To cite your example, maybe a system where if a certain ratio of strength in favour of the attacker is reached, they can assault by escalade if nothing else - with better chances of success if they have a siege train on site?

Father General wrote:French or British for me.

-Neal

Hey Neal, great to see you. The British won't become active until some turns into the game at which point some Spanish players will shift over to command them. So you can play Spanish to begin with, becoming British later or play French and stay French, so please let me know your preference.

Wittmann wrote:I'd be interested in playing for France or Spain, although I'd fill in wherever need be.

On a side note regarding rules, it seems like sieges seem unbalanced.

Fair point. I'll include a rule that requires a minimum ratio of defenders to attackers and if it's not reached (as Khryses suggested) the attackers can attempt an immediate assault without the need to breach. Also great to have you on board Wittmann.

Hays wrote:Any side where I can where a feather bonnet

That sounds like you want to be British so I'll give you a Spanish command for now and you can swap over later. That gives us 2 definite Anglo-Portuguese commanders (Baldwin & Hays), which is enough though one more can probably be slotted in.

Khryses - nice ideas for representing the Provincial Juntas. I will probably make up a card deck with a card pulled for each player/general each turn. On a 2 thru 10 no orders will be issued but on a face card (Knave, Queen, King, Ace) the Junta will issue an order which must be complied with. The orders will vary with things like "attack A" (place or enemy army) to "hold location B" to "move to C" (place or friendly army) to "operate alongside D for X turns" (friendly army), "ensure location E is garrisoned with at least a brigade", etc, etc.

Jose Palafox in Zaragosa of course can do as he likes since he was the only dude shrewd enough to get himself set up as a petty dictator, at least until the Central Junta was established at the beginning of October.

Also found that Wikipedia has a pretty good entry on the whole conflict which should be enough to get those who don't want to go buying books a basic background to the war, especially Spanish and French politics and wheeling-and-dealing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peninsular_War

Marshal Weathers reporting Mon Frere!
Le Spanish pigs will feel le steel....and lead


Pencil me in for the French, since Im replying pretty late, I wouldnt mind being transferred to a different side.

Thanks for the interest. Added you to the French team.

Mr. Digby wrote:Okies, I've added you to the Spanish team as they need a player next.

I haven't got the Atlas yet, though from what I've seen of it on the web it looks fantastic.

I've dug out my old copy of "Ulcer" and am going to re-read it soon. Been so long since I read it I've forgotten what it was like!

I recently got a copy second hand via Amazon of a book called "The Spanish Army in the Peninsular War" by Charles J Esdaile, published in 1988 as one in a series of books entitled "War, Armed Forces and Society" and its a fantastic read. It paints a compelling and pretty depressing picture of the culture, society, politics and armed forces of Spain from about the 1770s. I have learned more about the why and wherefore of the Spanish Rebellion in the last 2 weeks than I have in the last 2 decades. Its an amazingly convoluted mess and really quite tragic, with the army being badly mismanaged since the 1760s and the culture of 'honour' among the Spanish nobility closing the officer class almost totally to commoners with the noble officers being completely useless strutting... flamingos, literally. Corruption was terrible and went to the very highest levels. And I mean to the king, Carlos IV who was a complete waste of space.

When the rebellion happened though, political and military power quickly passed to the hands of the local (provincial) civilian juntas and the generals were just puppets dancing to their whims. Its why so many campaigns ended in failure, why Bailen produced no lasting results and why by 1810 Spain was practically prostrate and acted henceforth only as a very weak partner to Wellington's Anglo-Portugese army.

It does mean I need to think carefully about the campaign and how much freedom of action the Spanish generals may have. I might have to make a kind of random event pack of cards to represent the total stupidity but compete authority of the various juntas.

Alternatively the non-SoW playing KS members could play the juntas. Hm.

*goes away scratching bonce*

Sounds like a fascinating book, Digby. Its been several years since I read anything on the Peninsular War and will likely delve into it more deeply once I have read 'Ulcer'.

Looking forward to it but, by all means (from my point of view), take your time.

Map modifications look good. As you prob found out it was not completed. Some features I also had to guess at, so there might be a road or river that is a bit out.

Any chance of a command? Friend of mine showed me the Kriegsspiel newsletter earlier today. Don't mind which nationality the command is.

From what I've read on the forum it looks an awesome undertaking

Cheers

Mike

Mr. Digby wrote:
Alternatively the non-SoW playing KS members could play the juntas. Hm.

Something like that would be very interesting indeed! Looks like a fair few non-SOW players are now turning up, so something like this might work very well.

You realise you're creating a beast here, don't you?

Maitlandtoo wrote:Any chance of a command? Friend of mine showed me the Kriegsspiel newsletter earlier today. Don't mind which nationality the command is.

From what I've read on the forum it looks an awesome undertaking

Cheers

Mike

Hello Sir! Welcome to the little SoW corner of the forums.

Do you own Scourge of War? Would you want to play in the multiplayer online battles, or do you prefer a command position that won't involve playing the computer game?

Grog - I may need to add a town or two more and a road or two but I think its enough to make a very good campaign map. Many more roads or towns would just add clutter and perhaps slow things down too much. I think all the essential roads are there.

Hi all,

This looks fantastic. Love these email Kriegsspiels, and I hope there are more of them in the future.

Unfortunately, I cannot play SoW for multiple reasons (I live in the wrong time zone, and my internet connection is a crime against humanity). However, I would love to be involved.

I don't know what role there is for a non-SoW player- can they still command? Juntas?

Alternatively, I'm more than happy to tag along as a journalist or historian of some sort- even run a blog- "Communiques From the Front"- that sort of thing. That would be fun.

My services are at your command, my good sirs.

Welcome Hannibal, it sounds like you could be useful as the Central Junta when it comes into existence. I'll need to think about how to work that role into a player position though.

Alternatively you could be Joseph Bonaparte, King of Spain (who initially did not have an army). That would be a political role at first and could be an interesting source of a journal.

Or an official observer sent by His Majesty's Most Britannnic Government to report back on th ewar and rebellion.

Also all -

RULE CHANGELOG 23 APRIL 13

Added rule numbers to the settlement list (2.4)
Barcelona designated fortress-city (2.4.3)
Bayonne, Perpignan and Rosas designated fortress-towns, and Rosas a port (2.4.4)
Algarve - 2 port-towns added, Faro and Lagos. (2.4.5)
Introduced two sizes of fortress - towns and cities. Fortresses must now have a minimum sized garrison to be effectively defended (though not to be considered friendly) (2.5)
Added a clarification to the Depots rule. Depots must be placed in settlements (3.2.1)
Added French LoC rule (3.5)
Bonus/Penalty for winning/losing a campaign season reduced from 20% to 10% *needs more work* (4.1)
Deleted all off-road movement ability for artillery in mountains (6.3)
Introduced defenders to attackers strength ratio for sieges rule (7.1.3)
Introduced minimum garrison rule for fortresses (7.1.4)
Renumbered several rules.
Found and squished numerous typos.

Sounds good! If there are playing positions available, then please put me where I am most useful- the junta and King Joseph both sound equally interesting and I have no real preference.

Sorry for the delay, I'm still not sure to have understood all the rules and the working mechanics, but you can place me where is necessary, no preferences

Thanks Mitra. If Suchet plays as well I should think you two would fit into the French side since there were some Italian troops sent to the Peninsular.

Hannibal - I think Joseph Bonaparte will be a good role for you. Just a political pawn and punchbag initially but he gets to command armies later on. He can also shout a lot and try to order the French around although he actually has no authority over them.

Maitlandtoo - Waiting on an answer for you but if you are not a Scourge of War player you could play the role of the Central Junta when it convenes in September. Prior to that I could give you a minor Spanish command.

And finally -

RULE CHANGELOG 24 APRIL 13

Map: Moved fortress-town of Rosas to hex 61.10. It remains a port.
Added provincial Juntas rule (5.1)
Clarified Investment rule (7.1.1)
Clarified ratio of Defenders’ to Attackers’ strength in sieges (7.1.3)
Added Forces Adjacent to Battle rule (8.6)
Rule 8.5.1 general intelligence of the enemy renumbered (9.0)
Added resource peninsular-resource.com

That's enough fiddling with the rules. Unless anyone comes up with some questions where I need to fix something that isn't clear or won't work, we'll go with what we have and if anything gets revealed during play as not working we'll deal with it on the fly. I need to stop thinking about rules and get the OOBs finished.

I was just poring over the map and wondering idly which role I'd wind up taking, when I noticed that Martin had already done that for us - cheers!

Ironic that, having helped with some ideas for the Provincial Junta rules, I'm not beholden to them here in fair Valencia.

"And let your battlecry be... a Llama! A Llama!"

Khryses wrote:I was just poring over the map and wondering idly which role I'd wind up taking, when I noticed that Martin had already done that for us - cheers!

Ironic that, having helped with some ideas for the Provincial Junta rules, I'm not beholden to them here in fair Valencia.

"And let your battlecry be... a Llama! A Llama!"

I can move you around if you like - I'm always open to people's preferences. I put a couple of players into certain posts because they either don't have the game or they'll be shifting to the Anglo-Portugese side later but aside from that anyone can play anywhere.