Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

I've started looking at changing the stock scenarios to work better with the KS Mod. I've begun with merging the cavalry squadrons in the QB04-Quatre Bras (F-Corps) scenario into regiments starting with Pire's 2nd Cavalry Division.

However, I seem to have an issue with the "send to scout" button because it doesn't appear.
This is the toolbar.layout bit that is relevant:

Code:

<Widget type="Window" skin="PanelEmpty" position_real="0 0 0.0913242 0.330579" name="pScout1">
    <UserString key="NSDGrid" value="0 1"/>
    <UserString key="NSDDrawCond" value="130 <= #skill3cur <= 170"/>
    <Widget type="Window" skin="PanelEmpty" position_real="0 0 1 1" name="pScout2">
        <UserString key="NSDDrawCond" value="#rank == 5"/>
        <Widget type="Button" skin="IDS_Send_to_Scout_Enemy" position_real="0 0 1 1">
            <UserString key="NSDDrawCond" value="#follow == 0"/>
            <UserString key="NSDUpdate" value="1"/>
            <UserString key="NSDBarVal" value="Me"/>
            <UserString key="OnClick" value="scout"/>
            <UserString key="NSDTip" value="#{IDS_Send_to_Scout_Enemy}"/>
            <UserString key="NSDCheckCond" value="#follow == 2"/>
        </Widget>
        <Widget type="Button" skin="IDS_Send_to_Scout_Enemy" position_real="0 0 1 1">
            <UserString key="NSDDrawCond" value="#follow == 2"/>
            <UserString key="NSDUpdate" value="1"/>
            <UserString key="NSDBarVal" value="Me"/>
            <UserString key="OnClick" value="follownone"/>
            <UserString key="NSDTip" value="#{IDS_Recall_Scouts}"/>
        </Widget>
    </Widget>
</Widget>

I think I've got the #rank correct...

Code:

Name                  ID                     SIDE  ARMY CORPS DIV   BGDE  REG   CMP
2nd Cavalry Division  OOB_Fr_JB_Pire         1     1    1     4     0     0     0
PAF Huber             OOB_PA_Huber           1     1    1     4     1     0     0
1er Régiment          OOB_JV_Simonneau       1     1    1     4     1     1     0
6e Régiment           OOB_Fr_PE_Barbazan     1     1    1     4     1     2     0
FI Wathiez            OOB_FR_MF_Wathiez      1     1    1     4     2     0     0
5e Régiment           OOB_FR_JF_Jacqueminot  1     1    1     4     2     1     0
6e Régiment           OOB_NMM_Galbois        1     1    1     4     2     2     0


Which likely leaves #skill3cur as the issue:

Code:

<UserString key="NSDDrawCond" value="130 <= #skill3cur <= 170"/>

Any help appreciated.

The problem is that the stock scenarios use the stock OOBs. Those do not use the KS values for edged weapons. Depending on that value, the scout button will be visible. You can try to change the master OOB, (the 2nd line in scenario.csv), to OOB_SB_StockFullFrench.csv, (stock OOB), which is in the KS mod and has the proper values for edged weapons. That may work if the IDs in column B of the scenario are the same as the IDs in the OOB.

I had already taken a copy of the NSD master OOB because I needed to mod that to merge the squadrons anyway. Sadly the ids don't match as I'd already checked that as an option. I shall see what I can do with the edged weapon values in my copy as I suspect that will be a quicker option. I didn't find the SDK guide overly helpful on what #skill%dcur actually meant.

Thanks for the info.

#skill3cur is the value in column B of unitattribute.csv, (logistics folder), for edged weapon proficiency. The stock game uses levels 0-9, (col. A) for all units including cavalry. The KS mod expanded this and uses levels 10-22 for various types of cavalry.

Ok but the draw condition is looking for values between 130 and 170. How does that relate?

That corresponds to levels 11-19 which are the levels used by light, medium cavalry and lancers. They are the types of cavalry that can scout.

That worked thanks. I copied most of the columns for those regiments from the OOB_SB_KS_NAP_Belgium1815_Full.csv file to my OOB file.

I've been having a bit of a re-think and reversed what I had been doing which was moving certain values from the KS OOB to a copy of the NSD Quatre Bras particularly to merge cavalry squadrons into regiments.

I think that was likely to leave me with only partially picking up some of the good things the KS mod brings in terms of revamps to artillery and skirmishers etc. So what I've now been doing is taking the OOB_SB_KS_NAP_Belgium1815_Full.csv file and creating a Quatre Bras version of it instead.

Doing the French was quite easy but the Allied commands are turning out to be a bit more difficult because of the fragmentary nature of the deployment of Allied units at Quatre Bras. Still I'll probably have it done tomorrow AM.

The second issue is the fact that the two NSD "full battle" scenarios for Quatre Bras are massively compressed time-wise. They take place over a much reduced three hours which doesn't feel "right".

My third most immediate concern is that Darb Rob's video of the battle shows it's possible to get a Major Victory for the French doing nothing more than holding a line south of the stream just the other side of Gemioncourt. I want to change it such that the player needs to take and hold the crossroads to majorly win.

I wouldnt worry about what you see in my videos if you're refitting the Quatre Bras scenarios for the KS mod. My tactics are extremely abusive of the stock games mechanics, most of which do not work with the KS mod. You would not be able to just sit there and hold that line and still gain enough points to win using the KS mod. Due to the increased range and effectiveness of artillery, among other things, the "Fortress" does not work in the KS mod. Without this formation the position would never hold, and you would duck off to many points in casualties to reach a major victory.

It works in the stock game because these formations are broken and can hold off enemy forces many times their own size for an almost unlimited amount of time. The ratio of casualties inflicted vs. casualties taken by these formations are also broken because they can maintain limitless amounts of close range canister fire earning huge amounts of points while suffering very few casualties in comparison because in the stock game screening everything with skirmishers is akin to the starship Enterprise putting up its shields.

None of this stuff works in the KS mod, and Ive never played the KS mod enough to discover whether it has mechanics of its own that could be exploited, so like I said, anything you see in my videos isnt applicable to the KS mod.

None of this stuff works in the KS mod, and Ive never played the KS mod enough to discover whether it has mechanics of its own that could be exploited, so like I said, anything you see in my videos isnt applicable to the KS mod.

You could always join us for a game or two and learn the tradecraft. The regular players often will find some particular exploit which will give them an advantage. When it becomes obvious that it works well, I take a very perverse delight in coding an appropriate response for the AI which will either nullify or greatly lessen the exploit. Hearing the wail of despair and confusion when a favorite tactic no longer works is like ambrosia.

My tactics are extremely abusive of the stock games mechanics...

and I wouldn't have had so many major victories without them

From another thread on restoring the objective timer...

Uncle Billy wrote:One of the more unrealistic parts of the stock scenarios was the way they utilized objectives. No battle was ever fought where spending a certain amount of time on a certain spot was necessary for victory or defeat. If you really want to modify the stock scenarios so they not only work with the KS mod but also reflect it's overall philosophy, then changing this feature would be an important improvement.

I've been doing some further work on modding the QB04 - Quatre Bras (F-Corps) scenario and having sorted out the Cavalry Regiments added in the Voltiguer units to the French side, I did a bit of playtesting. I have to say, I don't like the way some of waypoint objectives cause you to have to TC a Brigade Commander and enough troops to get them remain in place long enough to gain the required points while mayhem surrounds you (I'm thinking of Gemioncourt in particular here).

I'm looking at two options - remove them all apart from the Quatre Bras crossroads or keep the waypoint objectives but make the points accumulation immediate as it is for some already. If I do the latter I may also add other objectives that are not currently present like Pireaumont.

I plan on keeping the "what-if" triggers which are "Activate I Corps" which costs the player 3000 pts and also "Activate Light Cavalry Division" which costs 2000 pts. The latter I may look into a bit more as this unit in the scenario contains both Kellerman's Cavalry and the Guard Light Cavalry.

I think I would prefer the Cuirassiers to arrive anyway and the activation to be solely for the Guard Cavalry which will only be available for a limited time. Is it possible to trigger taking away a unit from the player? Can you lock it and still move it before then hiding it?

The stock scenarios were, IMHO, a very broken way to present the game to the gaming community. I would go back to the historical battle, analyze what each C-in-C NEEDED to do to claim a victory and then write scripts and assign objectives (without any points values allocated to them) in order to drive the two sides towards trying to attain what was needed. The player then should objectively ask himself at the conclusion of the fight "based on what I needed to do, did I achieve a victory?"

I would remove troops that were significantly delayed or didn't show at all or do much of use when they did arrive like the French Guard Light Cav.

The stock scenarios were, IMHO, a very broken way to present the game to the gaming community. I would go back to the historical battle, analyze what each C-in-C NEEDED to do to claim a victory and then write scripts and assign objectives (without any points values allocated to them) in order to drive the two sides towards trying to attain what was needed. The player then should objectively ask himself at the conclusion of the fight "based on what I needed to do, did I achieve a victory?"

I would remove troops that were significantly delayed or didn't show at all or do much of use when they did arrive like the French Guard Light Cav.

This was an interesting exercise. I basically removed all objectives but one and as per your suggestion gave it zero points. I also removed the Guard Light Cavalry and also the "what-if" option for D'Erlon's corps. I changed the scenario length to be historical and adjusted the reinforcement schedule accordingly.

The result is that after 3+ hours, I am sitting north of the crossroads with two infantry divisions + one cavalry division. Jerome's infantry + Kellerman's cavalry are at Thyle (simulating the possibility of me sending them down the Namur road to Ligny) and Allied reinforcements are being defeated in detail. I ended up with a badly-mauled infantry brigade due to Dutch artillery early on and I had a cavalry regiment rout due to leaving it too far forwar.

In hindsight, the stock scenario appears to be all about delaying the French with waypoint objectives and compressing the scenario length to allow time for Wellington's troops to arrive to make it a fairer fight. The AI scripting would have been affected to some degree by removing the waypoint objectives as there were a number of events tied to those in the battlescript file. At some point I will fight this from the Allied side but at the moment, I'm in the process of going through the Ligny OOB and making it KS compatible.

It sounds as if the modified scenario is playing out with a pre-1812 Ney in command. The retreat from Moscow really put the zap on his head and he was never the same general again. You could try lowering the stats of the brigade commanders to make them fight more tentatively if you want to recreate what actually happened. Otherwise, you may just be seeing what should have occurred had Ney been his old self.

Otherwise, you may just be seeing what should have occurred had Ney been his old self.

I think that's exactly it.

This has been an interesting (and still on-going) experiment.

My initial approach with Quatre Bras was to copy the relevant NSD OOB and change it to be KS-compatible. I started doing the same thing with Ligny but it was taking too long so I decided to use the KS equivalent and enlist the Scenario Generator. The main issue with that approach was that there were more corps/divisions than available slots. So I wrote a small command-line app that basically combines 2 scenarios from the SG into one single one. The only OOB change I made was to remove Général de Division Count Louis de Bourmont as the commander of the 14th Division (try as I might I couldn't being myself to leave him in charge).

Having added some basic scripting for the Prussian side, I gave it a go. Several things are clear:

Separate single-arm cavalry and artillery formations are not a good idea - they don't seem to do much when given orders (I'm trying to do courier-only)
Playing as a army-level commander is also not a good idea - I'd forgotten that you only get courier messages as a Corps commander.
I clearly don't know much about AI scripting as my attempt to feed in Pirch's corps as Zieten's comes under pressure resulted in not very much.

The first of these are manageable in Quatre Bras as it's essentially corps-level anyway even if you leave Ney as Army Commander. The last needs some work by examing examples from the stock scenarios - especially the main Ligny one (The Eagle Triumphs).

First of all I reworked Quatre Bras - single corps commander (Ney) and both cavalry divisions split and added to the infantry ones. Re-ran it and it worked pretty well courier-only - the only issue was when I getting messages about intercepted couriers I discovered that my OOBNames.xml / OOB / Scenario had a inconsistent mixture of OOB_Br and OOB_BR which screwed up unit names.

I finished reworking my Ligny scenario with the French changed into one mega corps commanded by Napoleon. Yet to run it but it now opens up in the NSD Scenario Editor without that falling over and as that tool is as flaky as a bag of very flaky things, I'm expecting the game to run it ok. Next thing is to improve the scripting but I'll try a re-run of the scenario as-is first.