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Aa few questions about maps

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Post  Daniel Krommer Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:40 am

Hi!
I've just purchased the original 1824 ruleset and I have a few questions. I've had some experience with wargaming previously, developed some rules and played some games but I think it is time to get into the "real deal" Laughing  I'm planning to host a few online games (via email) in the winter vacations but I have a few problems.

1. Herein Hungary wargaming doesn't have a big audience so it's difficult to introduce anything new. I am not aware (and I've been searching) of anyone who plays or has played kriegspiel here, thus I decided to start playing it myself and I have a few people interested but with no experience.

2. As I said I have a bit of experience wargaming but non in mapmaking and that is my biggest concern. I just don't know where to start. I would appreciate a comprehensive guide to making realistic KS maps (and I know that it is a big topic so as specific as possible would be the best)
My questions really are:

Where to find accurate and good looking material for it ei. historical maps? (I am planning of doing some Napoleonics and the 1848/49 Hungarian revolution)
How to determine scale?
What kind of software to use?
Would it be better to print them or just play "online"?
How to make it appealing?  Very Happy

3. A few things besides maps: Where can I find information about historical unit sizes and battle setups? Especially interested in Napoleonics and the previously mentioned 1848/49 Hungarian revolution (I know it is quite a specific era... :/ )

Thank you very much in advance!
I truly appreciate it!

Daniel Krommer

Posts : 7
Join date : 2020-12-07

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Post  Martin Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:23 pm

Hi Daniel, and welcome to the forum

Great news that you’re planning to start another group in Hungary.  As far as I know, that will be a first.

Maps

I think your best bet for maps - at least initially - is to buy one of the purpose-made kriegsspiel maps from TooFatLardies.  In increasing order of size there are Waterloo, Meckel, Sadowa-Koeniggratz and the Metz region.  These are all at the correct scale.  You can buy hard-copies, but a cheaper alternative is the electronic version, which of course also allows you to print-out extra copies.

At the moment, at least in the UK, face-to-face gaming is not an option.  For an online game you could use a very neat app called Tabletop Simulator.  Our fellow group in Southern California ran a game using this a couple of weeks ago.  They are a very friendly group, and I’m sure can give you some advice on the tech they used.  You can contact them here  socalkrieg@gmail.com

Trying an online game might also get some experienced players involved.  That might help on the umpiring side.

Unit sizes & deployment

The traditional Prussian kriegsspiel normally used standard-sized units: infantry battalion 900, cavalry squadron 150, artillery batteries 6 or 8 guns.  If you want to use actual unit sizes, for the Napoleonic period, you could order one of George Nafziger’s books on a specific campaign.  I often find the narrative heavy-going, but he does usually include detailed battle maps, and appendixes listing individual unit strengths.

For 1848 am at a loss, I’m afraid.

Hope that helps.

Martin J

Martin

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Join date : 2008-12-20
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Post  Daniel Krommer Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:14 pm

Thanks a lot for the help. I am stunned how helpful and friendly all of you guys are. Smile

I thought of buying the map as well - at least for a start - but I am really interested in the process of making one just like those. Especially because of the different scenarios that I would like to play. Which map would you recommend for starters?

I know Tabletop Simulator and to be honest, I don't really like the way it functions, I am more of a 2D guy. How do people play the game via email? That's what would interest me.

Thanks again!

Daniel Krommer

Posts : 7
Join date : 2020-12-07

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Post  Martin Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:29 pm

Personally I would start with Meckel. It's actually a hypothetical map, specifically designed to facilitate K/spiels by the Prussian General Jackob Meckel. It's large enough for many different scenarios, and the terrain is very clearly delineated. For a new umpire and new players, that has advantages. Hills look like hills for example, rather than the more vague elevations they sometimes are in real-life. It's well done though, and does not really look like artificial terrain.

My overall favourite is Metz. It is huge (100xA3 sheets). You typically only use a small portion of it for any scenario. This will give you and your players many years of use.

Where traditional games have been run by email in the past, players have had their own maps, and briefing has been done verbally by phone, Teamspeak or Discord. The umpire can also amplify that with a photo of the relevant portion of the umpire map, showing any friendly or enemy troops in sight of that commander.

Martin J

Martin

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Post  Daniel Krommer Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:21 pm

Thanks!
Then I shall purchase the Meckel one.
Wow! 100 A3-s? That must cost quite a bit...
Another question... a bit off-topic.
Where can you get hold of the pieces? I was thinking of making my own but I really don't know where to start. I think making them out of wood might be the easiest but maybe they would be too light to handle.

Daniel

Daniel Krommer

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Join date : 2020-12-07

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Post  Martin Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:36 pm

I think there's a guy who makes them in plastic in various colours, to the customers specification. I have heard positive reports of his product.

I cannot remember his name but think he's posted on this forum before. Have a good look around and you should find contact details.

If not, I dare say someone who has bought from him can help you.

Martin J

Martin

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Post  King_Rufus Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:34 pm

You will find a nice grand tactical map for Hungary 1848-9  HERE - DOUBLE CLICK ON IT TO ENLARGE

If you find any maps which are more tactical in scale, I would be very interested!

In the maps section of this present forum is a link to the Hungarian Military Survey maps of 1910 but these obviously show railways etc.

As regards blocks, two possibilities are IRREGULAR MINIATURES  who produce metal blocks which need painting.

Also PHOTON CUTTER STUDIOS (Tom Evans). Tom can be personally recommended; his website is down but he may still be found on social media.

Larger blocks can also be made by printing out on paper and mounting on artists foamboard

Check out also  THIS PAGE

Plus the resource pages on this present forum.

Good luck and keep in touch! You may wish to know there are KS players in Italy, Netherlands and Denmark as well as UK – you can find them all on this forum.
King_Rufus
King_Rufus

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Join date : 2009-01-04

http://www.kriegsspiel.homestead.com

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Post  marsbarr Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:17 pm

You can get the blocks here from Command Post Games:

https://www.commandpostgames.com/product-category/kriegsspiel/


They also have dice, measuring apparatus and some historical maps / scenarios!

marsbarr

Posts : 5
Join date : 2016-11-16

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Post  Air Force 17 Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:19 pm

Here you can a original map, if you match it with googlemapd , you can establish the original 1:8000
S.460
https://books.google.de/books?id=OyRfAAAAcAAJ&pg=PP8&dq=das/preussische+kriegsspiel+daheom+1873&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiDo5abocntAhVKMewKHbzJDy8Q6AEwAHoECAEQAg#v=onepage&q=das%2Fpreussische%20kriegsspiel%20daheom%201873&f=false

Air Force 17

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Post  Daniel Krommer Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:48 pm

Thank you all!
It has been really helpful. I find such joy just researching this game, and it is much better with so many dedicated and helpful people.
Thanks again and I hope I'll be hosting my first game soon.

Yours,
Daniel

Daniel Krommer

Posts : 7
Join date : 2020-12-07

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