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Post  Mr. Digby on Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:40 pm

I don't want to give players the option of deciding if their disorganized troops should fight or not.

My apologies, that wasn't what I was asking for. I was hoping that a clearer indication that a unit is out of action could be implemented. Could battalion commanders send the player a message as well as the brigade commanders? That would be enough, then you'd know not to bother trying to order X battalion hiding back there in the woods to do anything like I was doing for ages yesterday. I couldn't understand why a brigade was functioning perfectly yet one battalion refused to move. If a single battalion is out of action I'd rather it went far to the rear rather than hung about getting in the way.

Alternatively might we scrap the single out of action battalion system and limit it to just out of action brigades?


Last edited by Mr. Digby on Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  risorgimento59 on Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:05 pm

I think it's dead easy to create/refresh UI variables from C++, Kevin.

std::int32_t selectedUnitID; // offset 0x007A8154, v103-steam

When the unit actually updating its AI from the DLL matches selectedUnitID, then addcomm -> eComSetVar(key, value).
If I remember correctly, keys starting with # are interpreted as long; the ones beginning with $ as strings.

Finally retrieve that variable in the layout files. Wink

I guess this wouldn't work perfectly if the game gets paused and AI doesn't advance, though.
Alternatively you could put an hook at the end of UpdateToolbarUIVars, where change of selections, etc. would be handled implicitly.


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Post  DumpTruck on Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:19 am

Is there a way that we could have the brigade commander be able to give orders, but the battalions will still only withdraw from the enemy within certain range? This way they wouldn't fight and would still behave as they do now, but you could still tell them to move away from the enemy without having to manually tell each battalion. Or if I were fantasizing about possible ways to do it maybe one could designate a 'regroup' area that detached brigades would head to, still obeying the required distance from the enemy.

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Post  Charmead on Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:59 pm

Actually this is what Digby and I have been informally doing for a few years now. One of our first actions is to find the best place for a meal. Sometimes it is a cafe but sometimes it is an Ad hoc picnic area. Regardless of venue it serves as a rally point for “disorganized” (we prefer to use the term “famished” or “hungry”) troops to gather.

If Kevin can adjust the AI accordingly then great. What I would ask, however is that he put a rating icon - 1 to 5 stars- on the toolbar so we can crowd source the best rendezvous points.
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Post  Uncle Billy on Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:42 pm

Single battalions must be detached, otherwise the brigade commander will try to bring them back into combat. That decision is made by the game engine. Also waiting until a sufficient number of battalions are disorganized and only then withdrawing is not realistic. Battalions would withdraw individually when they became combat ineffective. When the brigade was no longer a viable fighting force would it withdraw.

An assembly point for disorganized troops seems like a good idea, but is not something that would be easy to program. Where would it be as battle conditions change? Put it too far away and the brigades will never be heard from again.

I have added a feature to the toolbar. When a unit is detached, a red 'Detached' pops up near the name of the unit. That should help.
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Post  Charmead on Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:41 pm

Assembly point:

Could you not model it somewhat like you currently do for cavalry scouts? Relative to a destination such as a division destination but to the rear of it vice forward of it.
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Post  Mr. Digby on Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:47 pm

Thanks Kevin. A lot seems to have happened while I was away taking my summer break. If the out-of-combat battalion is detached that will help identify it. I assume by clicking on the brigade commander and viewing the OOB tree his command would then only show those units attached to him? Yes?

That would be enough for me now that I know what to look for. It was the apparent lack of info that was bothering me.
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Post  risorgimento59 on Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:55 pm

Candidate assembly point for me:
highest scoring location from a battlefield map subregion (centered on the btn or brig) where the combined enemy threat is low (or mitigated by interposed friendly forces or obstructed terrain) both in intensity and reaction times (less of a problem for cavalry than artillery) - a likely quiet place basically; cost/distance from the main brigade body within a range that would still allow to get everybody together in a reasonable amount of time (roads would ideally reduce that "cost", for example); additional retreats not obstructed by terrain; proximity to strong defensive positions (manually annotated in a txt file); likelihood of becoming an obstacle to allied troops deloyment; etc. scratch

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Post  Vincent6691 on Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:53 pm

Thanks to all division commanders for this great victory over the French. Despite Pat expedition in the South on his own, which finally concluded well, but letting the Northern flank opened as a gift for Phil, everything went well. 

I found the French not combative at all, at least on the western side. I don't who was in command, but aggressiveness would not be his main quality.

I think we can all thank Martin since he seems to own 80% of the points earned in this battle  Laughing.
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Post  Mr. Digby on Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:11 pm

It was a struggle. I had a guards brigade of about 2,500 men that refused to fight any more after it had lost 57 men Sad

My other brigade was Dutch-Belgian militia and likewise refused to fight any more after trivial losses so I had to do almost all the fighting with my cavalry. One of Arentshildt's hussar regiments though did well and amassed around 3500 points. My guns had a very average day. Couldn't get them into good firing positions at all.
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Post  Vincent6691 on Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:12 pm

The "brigade that doesn't want to fight anymore" phenomenom  reminds me a previous battle in winter (one or two months ago) where I got completely outflanked at the very end of the fight, we were Russians. 

During that battle I also had an entire brigade that never wanted to go to attack, they were useless. Even after long rest, no way to use it. I supposed that time that it was my order to make them cross woods leading to high fatigue level but it can be something else though. Martin was you guard brigade tired before the fight started ? It could explain why they refused to advance.

Meanwhile, this behaviour is a bit extremist I would say. If soldiers are too  exhausted to fight after crossing a wood, there is no hope  Laughing
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Post  Charmead on Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:48 am

“Expedition?”

I was following CinC orders

Fake news

:-)
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Post  Charmead on Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:54 am

Judging from the replay I'd have to say it was a major victory for us Russians

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Post  Uncle Billy on Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:31 am

Meh. Clearly you are no judge of results. The French held 2 of 3 objectives. Another one for the Pat file. Think you can do better next time?
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Post  Charmead on Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:10 am

As I said yesterday, my Russian cavalry did not recognize the sovereignty of France, hence the French flags in the forts at the objectives- which we had surrounded - were irrelevant. They should have come out into the streets where we could have run them down. Meanwhile  Kevin you could have had your own infantry clean my stables afterwards. Your troops did not seem to contribute otherwise so that might have made for useful work by them.

They made an aggressive initial stance at the main highway intersection. In my corps I had Phil gather up on the hills south if it and defend. He halted them and kept their attention. Was nice to see his artillery well placed and blasting the squares. . It gave enough time for Ehey to come up on the east (right) flank and that was near perfectly timed with Mikos division (no doubt despite the protests if brigade commander Kevin) arrival on their west flank and rear. The Fench melted pretty fast after that.

That pretty much allowed the original plan Miko and I derived to be executed. Miko had already sent Vince on a flanking move to the rear objective from the west. So I could send Ehey on the eastern side as planned. Meanwhile Phils and Mikos divisions drove straight up the middle.

But yeah it was pretty tough going trying to root out the French from the strongholds. Those last 2 objectives were well defended.

Even at Pont Mouson (rear objective) the cavalry elements of both corps arrived upon front and rear of the French. I saw Vince’s troops literally down the street. But we needed infantry and artillery to reduce their defenses and had only begun to engage when time expired.

Personally I am getting better at using cavalry than I used to. Much more patient. I took relatively few casualties- majority of those when I was operating too close to the French forts at the end - and had both squadrons When time ran out. I think I have mastered Kevin’s skill of sitting in the saddle and watching friendly infantry die, waiting my turn. Either that or my skills have not improved at all and I simply derive Much pleasure from watching his sprites keel over.
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Post  Uncle Billy on Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:13 pm

Indeed, waiting for the right opportunity is the key to success in using cavalry. As in chess, never bring the queen out too early. It just becomes a target. When commanding cavalry, I find the best use of infantry is to be savaged by enemy cavalry. As they retreat, they bring the disorganized enemy closer to your own cavalry and allows them to strike with little danger. A few hundred butchered infantry are easily replaced.
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Post  DumpTruck on Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:54 pm

The terrain was the toughest opponent. There were many woods and streams. I narrowly avoided catastrophe when I nearly ordered my division to cross the river in the north, hoping to save time. I think we probably didn't need 3 divisions at the fight at the crossroads. One of us on either flank could have slipped away earlier. Unclear if that would have been enough time saved anyway though.

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Post  Charmead on Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:59 am

Yeah Ehey maybe possibly we might bought some time with different action.

I had gone to our left flank and sent a message to Miko out west explaining the situation at the crossroads and hoping he might spare at least a brigade. I didn’t know if he received the message because I had to go back to the right flank where my brigade was. Ehey as you started your attack I saw lead elements of Mikos division appear in force. So I had you disengage early because it was pretty clear the French were going to collapse ... and had you just keep driving northeast.

But I had assumed - without clarifying at the start — that we could only cross the river at roads. I didn’t ask about it until later in the game. Had I asked earlier I would have had you cross the river west of where the road was. Might have saved 15 maybe 20 mins. Might have enabled you to get your infantry engaged at the objective

I guess it pays to ask questions earlier.
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Post  DumpTruck on Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:37 am

Oh no there would be no time saved in fording the river.  That river may well be made of molasses.  I narrowly avoided getting my division stuck there for the rest of the game.


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Post  Vincent6691 on Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:27 pm

Yesterday's battle was an epic fight !

Our plan was to test one of the 2 crossings and cross where the enemy wasn't detected first, luring him into thinking we will cross at the first bridge. It just worked perfectly well, just because their objectives were made for that plan Laughing .

I have to say that we need to do something about the buildings garrisons. Against AI or not, it is just impossible to take them. In that game, it could have make a large difference since Phil and I had already routed Kevin at 16:30 but where stuck out of the village because of that building. If taken earlier, I would probably had reoriented my men since I had a fresh brigade that never had space to fight.

I also should blame myself for forgetting that in our objectives was also holding a bridge and not only send wagons to the village. I didn't expect Pat to be that diligent and I'd rather asking him to retreat to the crossing. The brigade sent west around the town was there to attract the ennemy, and nothing but a lure.
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Post  DumpTruck on Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:01 pm

It was a good fight indeed. Really down to the wire. PVP battles are always interesting with the games that can be played to reposition and mislead the enemy. I was on the Russian side the first time we played that scenario and we tried to cross at both objective crossings and it didn't work out, so we tried to cross in the north this time, sneaking the wagons up and around. Your fake-intercepted messaged did actually work on me as between that and seeing you deploy a brigade on Pat's left I thought there was two divisions there. Though even with the misinformation my plan for myself was to just stay connected with Kevin while Miko pushed into the town and I would move to assist who ever was in trouble and needed the most help. I had a good position over Pat's division so I didn't need to push anything unnecessarily.

I think I did get one message from Kevin saying he was confronted by two divisions, but I mistook it for being from Miko. lol!

I wholly agree about the fortifications though. If we didn't have them it would have been a different game, but likewise there was a singular farm house that a battalion of Poles had sheltered in and it took more than a brigade and more than 40 minutes to dislodge despite being surrounded. Even only two fortifications in a city makes that city take a very long time to capture and if you've done an hour of maneuvering then you're already pressed for time.

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Post  Charmead on Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:40 pm

My division was on the west side of that middle crossing. The other 2 (Vince and Phil) on the East side

My job was mostly to be a decoy and mostly to keep Russian attention on me while the other 2 divisions Got the wagons to our assigned objective east of the river.

Once it was clear that the Russians (Kevin) were at the crossing in strength I sent note back to Vince and he opted to take the southern crossing. That’s about the time A Russian division (Ehey) arrived North of me in my side of the river and probed my position.  

So I stayed in a pocket for a while facing the threats to the North and East. Vince sent a brigade to the left (West) of my line to make it appear like our strength was west of river.

Once I saw Mikos Russian hordes farther west, driving south for the main town and notified Vince, he told me to engage them.

At that moment I knew I would be writing many letters home. I left about half my division in place with all my artillery facing Ehey. Vince and Phil were just starting to engage across the river and I saw the intercepted messages from Kevin lamenting his outnumbered condition (he is SUCH a whiny player ... “they have 2 divisions to my 1” and other complaints) so I had to keep something in place lest Ehey just roll south and support Kevin. Turns out having a little fortification there was a good thing.

That meant I had to split my division and engage Miko with essentially a reinforced brigade. I wasn’t sure if Miko had the town as an objective or the southern crossing or both. So I hedged my bets and took up good positions SE of the town in hills. We were doing ok in a gradual fighting withdrawal but were way outnumbered and could not counter his cavalry. The worst part came when I got killed. I respawned 2 miles away across the river and my division got ripped to pieces by Miko while I rode back.

I literally found 1 battalion and 1 gun To gather up at the southern crossing. Our little band behaved valiantly driving off the hordes with ball and grape and nasty shouts about Russian mothers and doubtful breeding.

In retrospect I could have stayed put but orders are orders lol. Actually if I did stay put Miko would easily have had the town and southern crossing without opposition and might have gone as far to recross the river and threaten Vince and Miko from the south.

Vince made the right call. And handled the corps very well.

Fun fight.
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Post  Uncle Billy on Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:34 pm

As the one who took the beating I have to say the church in Osetra was my savior. Had it not been for that building, my division would have been out of the battle by 1700. I could deal with the French infantry, but not all the cavalry that accompanied them.

My one tactical mistake was defending too far south. When Vince's division appeared, I should have fallen back to the north side of the road. The ridge there with the stream along the base would have made it very hard for Vince to make progress. It would have largely neutralized his cavalry. But I was having too much fun sending cannonballs into Pat's hapless formations across the river. It was a situation of enjoyment before prudence. I must be stronger next time. Mad
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Post  Vincent6691 on Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:29 pm

How finished yesterday's battle ? It looks like we have all objectives at 17:15, if I'm correct.

Other question, about cavalry. I'm struggling to make them move properly and it always finish into TC regiment one by one (even it is not recommended). But without that no results, I order sometimes 10 times a TC commander to move his men somewhere, it never happens...
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Post  Miko77 on Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:51 pm

We finished it before time as we held all of the objectives and there was no threat from Austrians to take it back - just some infantry in the woods near the northern objectives and one regiment of cavalry that Phil was chasing with squares in the woods Wink

Well, yes.. don't know what changed overtime but cavalry became extremely difficult to play... they sometimes move a bit and stuck in traffic and seem to drop the order... you can TC them but then they would suffer some penalties that Kevin implemented to discourage direct control over cavalry.
It's a two edge sword... relaxing restrictions may result in human player defeating army with one cav regiment... on the other hand I've got full regiments of cuirassiers routed from the field after losing maybe 10 men...

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