Latest topics
» TableTop Simulator
by zu Pferd Yesterday at 11:07 pm

» Impromptu Games
by Charmead Yesterday at 6:38 pm

» SOW Scenario Generator
by Mr. Digby Yesterday at 6:13 pm

» Three more Lace Wars Maps
by Mongo Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:41 pm

» Battle Results
by Mr. Digby Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:57 am

» Army level rules?
by lederhosen Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:14 pm

» Fascinating documentary on Lee’s retreat from Gettysburg
by Martin Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:41 pm

» Guten Tag from Trier, Germany
by Martin Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:20 am

» 20th October 2019 face to face game at Little Gaddesdon
by Martin Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:34 am

» New to SOWW and to KS mod. Few questions as well
by Uncle Billy Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:09 pm

» 22nd September face to face game at LG. WW1 Naval
by gunboat diplomat Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:24 pm

» KS Napoleon Mod 1.31 & Supplemental Maps 1.21 Released
by risorgimento59 Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:47 pm

Statistics
We have 1062 registered users
The newest registered user is KingPfaff6

Our users have posted a total of 26384 messages in 2067 subjects
Log in

I forgot my password


Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  parmenio on Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:21 pm

I've started looking at changing the stock scenarios to work better with the KS Mod. I've begun with merging the cavalry squadrons in the QB04-Quatre Bras (F-Corps) scenario into regiments starting with Pire's 2nd Cavalry Division.

However, I seem to have an issue with the "send to scout" button because it doesn't appear.
This is the toolbar.layout bit that is relevant:

Code:
<Widget type="Window" skin="PanelEmpty" position_real="0 0 0.0913242 0.330579" name="pScout1">
    <UserString key="NSDGrid" value="0 1"/>
    <UserString key="NSDDrawCond" value="130 <= #skill3cur <= 170"/>
    <Widget type="Window" skin="PanelEmpty" position_real="0 0 1 1" name="pScout2">
        <UserString key="NSDDrawCond" value="#rank == 5"/>
        <Widget type="Button" skin="IDS_Send_to_Scout_Enemy" position_real="0 0 1 1">
            <UserString key="NSDDrawCond" value="#follow == 0"/>
            <UserString key="NSDUpdate" value="1"/>
            <UserString key="NSDBarVal" value="Me"/>
            <UserString key="OnClick" value="scout"/>
            <UserString key="NSDTip" value="#{IDS_Send_to_Scout_Enemy}"/>
            <UserString key="NSDCheckCond" value="#follow == 2"/>
        </Widget>
        <Widget type="Button" skin="IDS_Send_to_Scout_Enemy" position_real="0 0 1 1">
            <UserString key="NSDDrawCond" value="#follow == 2"/>
            <UserString key="NSDUpdate" value="1"/>
            <UserString key="NSDBarVal" value="Me"/>
            <UserString key="OnClick" value="follownone"/>
            <UserString key="NSDTip" value="#{IDS_Recall_Scouts}"/>
        </Widget>
    </Widget>
</Widget>


I think I've got the #rank correct...

Code:
Name                  ID                     SIDE  ARMY CORPS DIV   BGDE  REG   CMP
2nd Cavalry Division  OOB_Fr_JB_Pire         1     1    1     4     0     0     0
PAF Huber             OOB_PA_Huber           1     1    1     4     1     0     0
1er Régiment          OOB_JV_Simonneau       1     1    1     4     1     1     0
6e Régiment           OOB_Fr_PE_Barbazan     1     1    1     4     1     2     0
FI Wathiez            OOB_FR_MF_Wathiez      1     1    1     4     2     0     0
5e Régiment           OOB_FR_JF_Jacqueminot  1     1    1     4     2     1     0
6e Régiment           OOB_NMM_Galbois        1     1    1     4     2     2     0

Which likely leaves #skill3cur as the issue:

Code:
<UserString key="NSDDrawCond" value="130 <= #skill3cur <= 170"/>

Any help appreciated.

parmenio

Posts : 30
Join date : 2015-12-22

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  Uncle Billy on Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:35 pm

The problem is that the stock scenarios use the stock OOBs. Those do not use the KS values for edged weapons. Depending on that value, the scout button will be visible. You can try to change the master OOB, (the 2nd line in scenario.csv), to OOB_SB_StockFullFrench.csv, (stock OOB), which is in the KS mod and has the proper values for edged weapons. That may work if the IDs in column B of the scenario are the same as the IDs in the OOB.

_________________
I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
Uncle Billy
Uncle Billy

Posts : 3542
Join date : 2012-02-27
Location : western Colorado

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  parmenio on Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:27 pm

I had already taken a copy of the NSD master OOB because I needed to mod that to merge the squadrons anyway. Sadly the ids don't match as I'd already checked that as an option. I shall see what I can do with the edged weapon values in my copy as I suspect that will be a quicker option. I didn't find the SDK guide overly helpful on what #skill%dcur actually meant.

Thanks for the info.

parmenio

Posts : 30
Join date : 2015-12-22

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  Uncle Billy on Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:56 pm

#skill3cur is the value in column B of unitattribute.csv, (logistics folder), for edged weapon proficiency. The stock game uses levels 0-9, (col. A) for all units including cavalry. The KS mod expanded this and uses levels 10-22 for various types of cavalry.

_________________
I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
Uncle Billy
Uncle Billy

Posts : 3542
Join date : 2012-02-27
Location : western Colorado

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  parmenio on Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:04 pm

Ok but the draw condition is looking for values between 130 and 170. How does that relate?

parmenio

Posts : 30
Join date : 2015-12-22

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  Uncle Billy on Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:52 pm

That corresponds to levels 11-19 which are the levels used by light, medium cavalry and lancers. They are the types of cavalry that can scout.

_________________
I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
Uncle Billy
Uncle Billy

Posts : 3542
Join date : 2012-02-27
Location : western Colorado

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  parmenio on Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:53 am

That worked thanks. I copied most of the columns for those regiments from the OOB_SB_KS_NAP_Belgium1815_Full.csv file to my OOB file.

parmenio

Posts : 30
Join date : 2015-12-22

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  parmenio on Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:26 pm

I've been having a bit of a re-think and reversed what I had been doing which was moving certain values from the KS OOB to a copy of the NSD Quatre Bras particularly to merge cavalry squadrons into regiments.

I think that was likely to leave me with only partially picking up some of the good things the KS mod brings in terms of revamps to artillery and skirmishers etc. So what I've now been doing is taking the OOB_SB_KS_NAP_Belgium1815_Full.csv file and creating a Quatre Bras version of it instead.

Doing the French was quite easy but the Allied commands are turning out to be a bit more difficult because of the fragmentary nature of the deployment of Allied units at Quatre Bras. Still I'll probably have it done tomorrow AM.

The second issue is the fact that the two NSD "full battle" scenarios for Quatre Bras are massively compressed time-wise. They take place over a much reduced three hours which doesn't feel "right".

My third most immediate concern is that Darb Rob's video of the battle shows it's possible to get a Major Victory for the French doing nothing more than holding a line south of the stream just the other side of Gemioncourt. I want to change it such that the player needs to take and hold the crossroads to majorly win.


parmenio

Posts : 30
Join date : 2015-12-22

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  DarkRob on Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:27 am

I wouldnt worry about what you see in my videos if you're refitting the Quatre Bras scenarios for the KS mod. My tactics are extremely abusive of the stock games mechanics, most of which do not work with the KS mod. You would not be able to just sit there and hold that line and still gain enough points to win using the KS mod. Due to the increased range and effectiveness of artillery, among other things, the "Fortress" does not work in the KS mod. Without this formation the position would never hold, and you would duck off to many points in casualties to reach a major victory.

It works in the stock game because these formations are broken and can hold off enemy forces many times their own size for an almost unlimited amount of time. The ratio of casualties inflicted vs. casualties taken by these formations are also broken because they can maintain limitless amounts of close range canister fire earning huge amounts of points while suffering very few casualties in comparison because in the stock game screening everything with skirmishers is akin to the starship Enterprise putting up its shields.

None of this stuff works in the KS mod, and Ive never played the KS mod enough to discover whether it has mechanics of its own that could be exploited, so like I said, anything you see in my videos isnt applicable to the KS mod.

DarkRob

Posts : 7
Join date : 2017-06-01
Location : Long Island NY

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  Uncle Billy on Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:59 pm

None of this stuff works in the KS mod, and Ive never played the KS mod enough to discover whether it has mechanics of its own that could be exploited, so like I said, anything you see in my videos isnt applicable to the KS mod.
You could always join us for a game or two and learn the tradecraft. The regular players often will find some particular exploit which will give them an advantage. When it becomes obvious that it works well, I take a very perverse delight in coding an appropriate response for the AI which will either nullify or greatly lessen the exploit. Twisted Evil Hearing the wail of despair and confusion when a favorite tactic no longer works is like ambrosia. Cool

_________________
I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
Uncle Billy
Uncle Billy

Posts : 3542
Join date : 2012-02-27
Location : western Colorado

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  parmenio on Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:54 am

My tactics are extremely abusive of the stock games mechanics...

and I wouldn't have had so many major victories without them Very Happy

parmenio

Posts : 30
Join date : 2015-12-22

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  parmenio on Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:17 pm

From another thread on restoring the objective timer...

Uncle Billy wrote:One of the more unrealistic parts of the stock scenarios was the way they utilized objectives. No battle was ever fought where spending a certain amount of time on a certain spot was necessary for victory or defeat. If you really want to modify the stock scenarios so they not only work with the KS mod but also reflect it's overall philosophy, then changing this feature would be an important improvement.

I've been doing some further work on modding the QB04 - Quatre Bras (F-Corps) scenario and having sorted out the Cavalry Regiments added in the Voltiguer units to the French side, I did a bit of playtesting. I have to say, I don't like the way some of waypoint objectives cause you to have to TC a Brigade Commander and enough troops to get them remain in place long enough to gain the required points while mayhem surrounds you (I'm thinking of Gemioncourt in particular here).

I'm looking at two options - remove them all apart from the Quatre Bras crossroads or keep the waypoint objectives but make the points accumulation immediate as it is for some already. If I do the latter I may also add other objectives that are not currently present like Pireaumont.

I plan on keeping the "what-if" triggers which are "Activate I Corps" which costs the player 3000 pts and also "Activate Light Cavalry Division" which costs 2000 pts. The latter I may look into a bit more as this unit in the scenario contains both Kellerman's Cavalry and the Guard Light Cavalry.

I think I would prefer the Cuirassiers to arrive anyway and the activation to be solely for the Guard Cavalry which will only be available for a limited time. Is it possible to trigger taking away a unit from the player? Can you lock it and still move it before then hiding it?


parmenio

Posts : 30
Join date : 2015-12-22

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  Mr. Digby on Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:49 pm

The stock scenarios were, IMHO, a very broken way to present the game to the gaming community. I would go back to the historical battle, analyze what each C-in-C NEEDED to do to claim a victory and then write scripts and assign objectives (without any points values allocated to them) in order to drive the two sides towards trying to attain what was needed. The player then should objectively ask himself at the conclusion of the fight "based on what I needed to do, did I achieve a victory?"

I would remove troops that were significantly delayed or didn't show at all or do much of use when they did arrive like the French Guard Light Cav.

_________________
The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
Mr. Digby
Mr. Digby

Posts : 5232
Join date : 2012-02-14
Age : 60
Location : UK Midlands

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  parmenio on Mon May 13, 2019 2:01 pm

The stock scenarios were, IMHO, a very broken way to present the game to the gaming community. I would go back to the historical battle, analyze what each C-in-C NEEDED to do to claim a victory and then write scripts and assign objectives (without any points values allocated to them) in order to drive the two sides towards trying to attain what was needed. The player then should objectively ask himself at the conclusion of the fight "based on what I needed to do, did I achieve a victory?"

I would remove troops that were significantly delayed or didn't show at all or do much of use when they did arrive like the French Guard Light Cav.

This was an interesting exercise. I basically removed all objectives but one and as per your suggestion gave it zero points. I also removed the Guard Light Cavalry and also the "what-if" option for D'Erlon's corps. I changed the scenario length to be historical and adjusted the reinforcement schedule accordingly.

The result is that after 3+ hours, I am sitting north of the crossroads with two infantry divisions + one cavalry division. Jerome's infantry + Kellerman's cavalry are at Thyle (simulating the possibility of me sending them down the Namur road to Ligny) and Allied reinforcements are being defeated in detail. I ended up with a badly-mauled infantry brigade due to Dutch artillery early on and I had a cavalry regiment rout due to leaving it too far forwar.

In hindsight, the stock scenario appears to be all about delaying the French with waypoint objectives and compressing the scenario length to allow time for Wellington's troops to arrive to make it a fairer fight. The AI scripting would have been affected to some degree by removing the waypoint objectives as there were a number of events tied to those in the battlescript file. At some point I will fight this from the Allied side but at the moment, I'm in the process of going through the Ligny OOB and making it KS compatible.




parmenio

Posts : 30
Join date : 2015-12-22

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  Uncle Billy on Mon May 13, 2019 3:26 pm

It sounds as if the modified scenario is playing out with a pre-1812 Ney in command. The retreat from Moscow really put the zap on his head and he was never the same general again. You could try lowering the stats of the brigade commanders to make them fight more tentatively if you want to recreate what actually happened. Otherwise, you may just be seeing what should have occurred had Ney been his old self.

_________________
I can make this march and I will make Georgia howl.
Uncle Billy
Uncle Billy

Posts : 3542
Join date : 2012-02-27
Location : western Colorado

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  parmenio on Mon May 13, 2019 4:21 pm

Otherwise, you may just be seeing what should have occurred had Ney been his old self.

I think that's exactly it.

parmenio

Posts : 30
Join date : 2015-12-22

Back to top Go down

Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod Empty Re: Uplifting the Stock Scenarios for the KS Mod

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum