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SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  WJPalmer on Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:43 pm

Lobau's VI Corps sports a combination of chasseurs à cheval and cuirassiers between his 3 line divisions (detailed below). His command is decidedly not cavalry-heavy. The Young Guard, however, has proportionately more horsemen including a squadron of Mamelouks and several squadrons of Chasseurs à Cheval de la Garde.

You'll have some initial decisions to make as to command assignments. If you want troops of your own to command, you might consider taking Duhesme considering he may ultimately see little or no action as the flaky reserve on Napoleon's short leash. But if you'd rather concentrate on the CinC role, I'd be more than willing to take Duhesme even if he ultimately remains uncommitted and heads off to support Napoleon at 16:30. No doubt you'll want to give other players the more active division and brigade commands in Lobau's 3 main divisions.

Simmer: Chasseurs
Jeanin: Chasseurs
Teste: Cuirassiers


Last edited by WJPalmer on Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Uncle Billy on Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:48 pm

Does each division have a squadron of chasseurs? Cuirassiers are prima donnas that couldn't scout their way out of a brown paper bag.

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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  WJPalmer on Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:52 pm

My note above is edited with the breakdown of each division's cavalry type.

Uncle Billy wrote:Cuirassiers are prima donnas that couldn't scout their way out of a brown paper bag

But they are pretty.
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Uncle Billy on Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:22 pm

A Simple Plan


The only information we have is that the locals of Charmes have seen Prussian forces.  That would suggest they will come from the SE, likely via Rosieres.  However we cannot be sure of this.  With this in mind, the first order of business will be to send out cavalry patrols to the locations marked on the map.  This will identify the axis of attack.  It is imperative we find the Prussians as quickly as possible.

If they come in stupid, that is solely along the Nancy road, we will mount a forward defense in front of the woods that surround the town, (marked as light blue).  This will give our guns good fields of fire and nice open ground for our cavalry.  Teste will be the reserve in this case and can move where needed.

However, I do not think this scenario is likely, even from backwards sausage eaters.  I believe the attack will come from more than one direction, likely the east and SE.  In that case, the town is not defensible given the wooded terrain.  I propose to pull the corps back to the high ground NW of town, (marked in dark blue), where, once again, our guns and cavalry can be used to the best effect.  Unless attacked from the south, Teste will be held in reserve and will be the counterattacking force once the enemy has been stopped.

In either scenario, I do not anticipate Duhesme will be needed, but if there is no other way to secure the Prussian baggage train, well, the sacrifice will have to be made.

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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Charmead on Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:40 pm

Given that the inspirational leadership provided by division commander Martin last week enabled me to kill and survive as a rookie cavalry commander I wish to take to the horse (equinus nastius) again. Travers brigade under Teste (the plural of which gives me concern a la comments from other divisions) is my ideal choice for scouting but any horsey is fine. I shall gallop off I initially to ensure separation then slow down and sniff for bratwurst.

And hopefully can steal an advanced copy of "On War"

I have a doodle app but alas no invite to see and sign Crying or Very sad
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Uncle Billy on Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:59 pm

The doodle sign-up link is in the 1st post of this thread.

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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  WJPalmer on Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:10 pm

Not enough colors in the plan. We're doomed.
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Charmead on Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:12 pm

Oh duh .... I hadn't signed in when I saw first post this did not click on it .... alien
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Uncle Billy on Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:21 pm

Not enough colors in the plan. We're doomed.
This is also my chief worry. Embarassed

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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Uncle Billy on Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:33 pm

Will this be played on the GCM or KS Teamspeak? If GCM, you might give the particulars for those who haven't been there yet.

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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Mr. Digby on Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:36 pm

The Prussians are in blue, the French are in blue - so I presume orders are to shoot anything in blue. We can't lose.

It looks like we have 7 players so far - that works nicely as C-in-C/Duhesme plus 3 division commanders and 3 brigade subordinates.

As Teste is the man with the biggest balls I'll play him if I may?

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"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  WJPalmer on Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:44 pm

I thought we'd play on the KS TS channel. But thanks for the reminder. I'll let prospective GCM'er participants know...

Digby wrote:As Teste is the man with the biggest balls I'll play him if I may?
It will be interesting to see if he maintains possession of these at battle's end.
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Mr. Digby on Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:02 pm

Will all players need the SG for this game?

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  WJPalmer on Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:04 pm

Yes. And not just SG, but the saved SG files I used to create the game. I'll post a Dropbox link in TS once we've all gathered. This will be downloaded and unzipped to the KS Mods folder and activated. Kind of a pain, but it is what it is...
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  SolInvictus202 on Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:43 pm

just arrived back home - completely done... gimme some time to set things up - PC needs to be set up etc.... might be a little late - but I will be there!
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Charmead on Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:12 am

Fun game

My 2nd time out with cavalry

Scouted south then east with my 4 squadrons. Looking for women and bratwurst eaters. Once I made contact and reported enemy movements I turned tail and trotted west. A pesky Prussian cavalry squadron chased me. So my rear guard halted, about faced and formed line to withstand their charge. Captured them.

Felt good about myself as I rejoined my division (the one with the embarrassing name). Then lost complete situational awareness on the map. I could swear I was farther south than I was and that the "eye" was wrong on the map. It was a confusing 10 minutes. Recovered and patrolled the right flank. Linked up with NY Cav to drive a pair of batteries away. THAT was an interesting exchange of SITREPS with the boss before he went offline. Rumor has it he was shot by our own troops because they were ashamed of the name.

Found myself in rear of bad guys. Soooooo many of them

Drove off more guns in Prussian rear but got a bit too cocky and thought I could run over another Prussian cav squadron. Wrong. My squadron got captured. I then went after an infantry battalion on its flank but was too slow and they formed square just before I got there. Say goodbye to squadron #2. Lost another one as I rejoined NY Cavs right ... Shot up and ran away. But I ran down a retreating infantry battalion with my last squadron.

Many letters to write home. A Pyrrhic victory ... Pyrrhic draw ... Pyrrhic loss. Pretty Pyrric.

But I do like this cavalry thing.
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Mr. Digby on Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:54 am

Cavalry are very fun. I would ask more newish players to try a mounted brigade and see how they like it. I think we'd end up with more cavalry commanders if people had a go as it is a very different game and can produce many tense and also exhilarating moments. When cavalry are successful they can be successful in a big way and one squadron can send packing a whole brigade if handled right and with a hefty dose of good fortune.

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The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Charmead on Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:25 pm

It didn't look like those Prussian troops were going to leave Nancy anytime soon
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Uncle Billy on Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:08 pm

It was a heroic fight by the French. Ultimately out numbered by more than 2:1, once the Young Guard was sent back to the Emperor, Lobau's corps managed to hold back the Prussian hoards for most of the day. It wasn't until a 5th enemy division showed up in our rear, (a repeat of history), did the enemy take control of the battle. Even at that point, the French did not break, but gave up ground grudgingly. In the end, we probably held up the Prussians long enough for the Emperor to defeat Wellington. Why Lobau hasn't been invited to Brussels and feted as the savior of the day remains a mystery. Perhaps the invitation became lost in transit.

Surprisingly, we inflicted more casualties on the enemy than we received, 6798 to 5158. This was probably due to the poor ground the Prussians had for artillery placement and also the fact that they did not have enough space to deploy their full force. Many battalions patiently waited until a space opened up before joining the battle. They had the luxury of being able to constantly bring fresh troops to the front to replace tired and broken ones.

Congratulations Ron for putting together a interesting and very challenging battle. I think it would be worth re-fighting, perhaps in a couple of months, with a different CinC and using the KS modded artillery. That might give the French the extra punch they'd need to win.

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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  WJPalmer on Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:08 pm

As I worked through the week tweaking the settings, running innumerable games, watching replays, etc., the workings of the game's AI became only slightly demystified. Using exactly the same settings with AI vs AI, the battle would run entirely differently, with the two AI opponents often trading victories. It's almost as if the AI ran through different scripts in its little computer brain to account for different outlooks and philosophies the CinC's might take that day. Ultimately, just before the battle, I generated a fresh scenario using the settings I had previously settled on and tested, so along with everyone I would be unable to predict what the enemy would do. The AI didn't disappoint. The Prussians took a quite different approach from anything I'd see before in all the testing. Of course, a lot of this had to do with its reaction to human play. Nonetheless, I was impressed. My opinion at this stage is that SoWWL's greatest contributions are in its improved handling of the interaction between cavalry and infantry (i.e., auto-formation of squares), and the AI performance. Now, if NSD could figure out the whole MyGUI thing and give us back full command map functionality, I could turn into a real fan. Wink
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Charmead on Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:24 pm

Yep. This is pretty much the only PC game I have had where I will willingly play versus AI. It is challenging. I was really surprised when that Prussian cavalry squadron pursued me in the South in the opening part of the game. Like hound dogs. The Prussian artillery beat feet out of Dodge City about the time I would when cavalry approached on a flank. By the way they were pretty darn accurate at 650 yards. Roland had inquired - with a tone not unlike one would use for a subordinate who got lost on the map (like I did Rolling Eyes ) but 10 minutes previously - as to how I lost 56 troops versus artillery at long range and thought they had support ... No they had excellent eyesight and ballistic predictions! And when i was a little too aggressive behind Prussian lines the Bratwursters were pretty good about trying to flank me and re engaging with artillery (that I had driven off) behind me. Twisted Evil

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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Charmead on Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:30 pm

By the way anyone building a future scenario that is a pure meeting engagement? You have probably done that before, but I was just curious. It will really put a stress on situational awareness and command, control and comms at all levels. Another option is getting hit with a surprise attack when Intel is especially poor .The one thing I see all time with GCM is the localized "we are screwed" or "our line is collapsing, send everything here 10 minutes ago" pleas because each individual commander only sees their tiny side of the world. It is fascinating to me how many players will run into 3 times their number, stay in place, and expect immediate help from everywhere ...rather than turn tail and regroup. And this happens with instant comms, elevated cameras and known objectives.
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  SolInvictus202 on Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:45 pm

be patient - the game is still new and we are still learning - towards the end of GB we had some interesting stuff developing and I am sure this will happen again...the force ratio is completely different to GB so the scenario designers need a feeling for it...

I am sure interesting scenarios will be created - the problem with meeting engagements vs the AI is simply that they don't really work - the AI needs a pointer to go somewhere...or stay and defend...

PvP will certainly happen at some point as well again - although I still remember the issues that came along with it - mostly unnecessary rivalries...


as for asymmetrical scenarios - well: last time a CinC ordered a retreat people were very annoyed that they didn't get to play... I had no issues with it - but then I also have no problem with staying on the field for 2 hours and waiting for orders to move into action, whereas others get itchy when they don't shoot for 10 minutes...  this is a PC game after all and I learnt that you can't expect the same behaviour as in the real world...some form of compromise is necessary...CinCs will no doubt also consider these "traits" once they get to know people in their command - just like in real life...
The one scenario I suggested some time ago was completely misinterpreted simply because the CinC never even considered to think in a certain way and was sure that his way would guarantee victory... well the result was that half the team was just cruising through the country side and never saw action while the other side crushed the small force opposing them... both sides were annoyed of not having seen enough action... well - neither I nor Kevin EVER considered that the CinC would come up with this particular plan...

The next time I suggested a scenario people didnT' sign up any more expecting the same thing to happen again... I wanted too much too quickly when it comes to recreating real life battlefield situations... which are, as a simple fact, not always fun to take part in Smile - but since this is a game- again - a compromise is needed here...
and since this group is VERY interested in historical accuracy and realism we usually get as close to the real thing as "fun to play" allows us to!

also: I was told that scripting is disabled for MP - so one can't give AI units a specific route to take - which in turn limits possible options....
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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Uncle Billy on Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:08 pm

Anticipating what a CinC will do in a scenario is the most challenging part of making one. It is the rare day when one will fight the battle in a the way I consider most likely. Of course if it wasn't for that challenge, I'd probably grow bored with making scenarios. Giving the AI enough flexibility, via troop placement, to handle the most likely and not so likely situations is what I consider the best part of the process. Creating PvP scenarios is much easier as both sides can adapt their plans as soon as they encounter the enemy. The initial setup does not have to be nearly as precise.

Ron's battle is a good example of this. He had to take into account the French mounting an aggressive defense with the us trying to keep the town behind our lines the entire time and also the one we actually used which was to let the Prussian have the town and then have them to attack us on the ground of our choosing. Unfortunately, the Prussians didn't take the bait and they forced us to come to them. The attack by that 5th division was very unexpected. He must have been very satisfied to see it develop as it dashed any hopes the French may have had of winning. I'm only sorry his command wasn't on that side of the field so he could experience it more intimately. Smile But Soldier was there, so it wasn't a total disappointment.

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Re: SoWWL Battle Sunday, August 9 20:00 BST: Plancenoit2/Lobau's Decision

Post  Charmead on Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:18 pm

Cool

Well like I said these games as written are fun and challenging. I think the current scenarios used are outstanding and the caliber and atmosphere of play most excellent. I was just curious.



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