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Map question

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Map question

Post  B Betts on Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:44 pm

I have a question of the above 1:50000 map. The contours are 20 meters and each gridded square is 1km.sq. What slope is reasonable to assume that a WW2 era tank/truck etc. could not climb?
Same question for infantry on foot.

Disregarding any woods there are areas in the south which clearly are too steep.

Looking at Baena (43.65) the hill just north of town seems climbable? How about 1km SW of town? Does anyone have a rule of thumb to apply for rise versus run?

Thanks in advance for any help.


B Betts

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Re: Map question

Post  MJ1 on Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:56 am


Make it up as you go along...

What I would say is no truck movement off road as it was pretty difficult and unless very flat and not too many hedges pretty rarely done.

Tanks are more problematic and if you have Churchills they could pretty well cope with hills.

Again I would look at the specific terrain and make a judgement call.

The Hill North of town yes could be but South of the Town unless on the road I would say not.

You have to wonder if you really want to pinpoint exactly to scale as Kreig IMO is not about exact individual tanks and men but about units and ground coverage. So a tank unit would cover say one of those squares and have an area of effect.

So rule of thumb for me is to not get hung up on minute detail but to think slightly bigger as players should not be worrying exactly where tanks are placed.


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Re: Map question

Post  Mr. Digby on Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:58 pm

A map can often answer your questions for you - for example south of town a road climbs that hill, and it does it via a zig-zag route announcing that the hill is too step for a direct climb. This of course would be by civilian traffic which in the pre-WW2 period would be mostly horse- or bullock-drawn in rural areas, but even so 4x4 motor transport came very late in WW2 if at all so motorised troops were mostly limited to the off-country performance of civilian designs.

As Mark says, if you think a hill looks steep them just assume it is and either make a judgement call to make it impassable or apply a time penalty to moving over it that you think is appropriate.

Infantry can access surprising slopes however. If you look at some of the Alpine battles in WW1 between the Austrians and Italians, men fought in places where goats might think twice about climbing - the expediencies of war often overrule logical considerations. However the Alpine battles were largely static and the infantry formations were not moving around that terrain in anything like a fluid manner.

My take on that wooded hill south of town would be to ban it to all horse and motor transport, and apply a time or fatigue penalty to infantry climbing it, perhaps both. I would then look at each terrain feature in turn as it became significant (that is, when a player wants to move troops there) and make a judgement call on each one.

The other Martin - Charles Reille, le dernier Maréchal de France.

"Any hussar who has not got himself killed by the age of 30 is a jackass." - Antoine Charles Louis Lasalle, commander of Napoleon's light cavalry, killed in battle at Wagram 6 July 1809, aged 34.

"I had forgotten there was an objective." - Generallieutenant Mikhail Borozdin I
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Re: Map question

Post  B Betts on Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:54 pm

Thank you both for your replies. It makes perfect sense, and I will take your advice to manage it by what the map tells me and common sense.


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